In or Out?
- Thread starter HertsFinest
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Kes
I'll Decide ...
Perhaps you'd like to check yours first too before gushing my friend.
So I got my math wrong, I should perhaps have said 10 years not five. No matter. The undeniable facts remain the same and the point I made remains extant.
Besides, I'm no Oxford Don, but your calculations should show there to be around 64 million muslims by now if you were correct. 
If you read up on it, you'll see that the area (or land mass) later proclaimed as ****stan in 1947 was originally Buddhist and Hindu. Sure, the rise of Islam went pretty much unhalted from around the 10th century onwards but it wasn't the founding faith in the region to begin with - that being my point.
My suggestion to you would be that you don't assume that everybody mentioning Islam in the context of the EU referendum is some sort of knuckle-dragging neo Nazi who is regurgitating stuff he's read on some neanderthal website. I have posted no assumptions.
RefereeingBooks
Active Member
I correct myself, the calculation would add up to 64 million, still a ludicrous number.
RefereeingBooks
Active Member
Perhaps you'd like to check yours first too before gushing my friend.
So I got my math wrong, I should perhaps have said 10 years not five. No matter. The undeniable facts remain the same and the point I made remains extant.
If you read up on it, you'll see that the area (or land mass) later proclaimed as ****stan in 1947 was originally Buddhist and Hindu. Sure, the rise of Islam went pretty much unhalted from around the 10th century onwards but it wasn't the founding faith in the region to begin with - that being my point.
My suggestion to you would be that you don't assume that everybody mentioning Islam in the context of the EU referendum is some sort of knuckle-dragging neo Nazi who is regurgitating stuff he's read on some neanderthal website. I have posted no assumptions.
I never made that assumption. I simply pointed out that your statement as to the number of Muslims in your country was incorrect if you had done the math. And yes, I took my calculation one step too far, but it does not detract from the incorrectness of your statement.
As for ****stan, you made it sound as though it was Hinduist and Buddhist when the republic was proclaimed and then turned Muslim. But I take it from you that's not what you meant in the first place.
Please don't assume that every person coming in here to challenge your statements is someone who attacks you for your opinions, beliefs or thoughts. I do read some fervour in your penultimate sentence which I believe to be slightly over the top in relation to my earlier post. As a foreigner here, I will let you Brits fight it out amongst yourselves.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
ignore me ... read the thing wrong
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Correct.
Islam, as a religion is about where christianity was circa 500 years ago. But what point are you making?
Are you suggesting that because christians persecuted and colonized societies 600 years ago that we in modern times should be happy and grateful that Islam is now doing the same as well? Christianity and it's followers moved on and developed into civilised and democratic nations mate. What has ancient history got to do with us anyway?
To be honest mate, that's the sort of approach that some hand-wringing apologist takes when fawning over foreign cultures. You might as well start apologising for the slave trade as well Brian!!
You don't actually have a point.
Being an atheist, I tend to think that people who believe in "Sky Fairies" are a bit mad anyway,but given a choice between living in a country where religion or faith is a personal and individual choice, and residing in one where it's a way of life and actively involves itself in national politics, law and education - I know which one I'd pick mate!!
@Kes
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HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
I had no say in the Slave trade
So no.
So no.
How many should there be? As a Brit, I think Wilberforce exemplified the majority view towards this practice, and the passing of anti-slavery laws in the 1830's underlined that, with emancipation further demonstrating the commitment. Should we continue to ask the Italians to apologise over their invasion of the UK (i.e. Julius Caesar), or is 2000 years sufficient to let sleeping dogs lie, whilst [nearly] 200 years isn't?
Alas I feel that religion and race form a part of the views pushing towards a Brexit. They may be magnified in the eyes of some, but the underlying trends that cause this reaction are there. It is undeniable that immigrant populations from certain cultures produce more offspring than others. An input to this is the religious beliefs of those cultures. And thus you see an immigrant population increase that is far higher than it has ever been in the past. This hasn't happened with other immigration waves in to the UK in the past, and in some [almost segregated] areas of the country its impact is very visible. And people are worried. But this is only one aspect of the immigration concern - five children instead of two point four, brought up in within that same culture and belief, will give a long term unsustainable growth in the overall population of the country. So if we are growing beyond control "naturally", and we won't be able to cope in 10 - 15 years, should we maintain an open door policy that extends across the greater nations of Europe? Should we, to protect the greater good of the 65 odd million people who already live here, consider how we can better manage our population growth, without ever having to go down the route of the Chinese? The other fear about where this population growth is happening demographically, is that there is a fundamental belief within some of those demographics that believes in an alternative law to that which has been the foundation for this country. This isn't a complaint about the people - the individuals - within those cultures - after all, they are simply doing what is culturally acceptable for them (whilst not necessarily being culturally acceptable for the current majority). It is a complaint about the politicians who enforced this exercise on us - and deferring that decision making process by another layer, further removed from the "local" requirements of these Isles, will only compound the situation.
People are living longer. Certain populations are producing more children than we have ever experience before. You want an NHS that can cope? You want a place for your child at school? You want to be able to drive anywhere without constant traffic jams? You'd like a seat on the bus or the train? You would like to minimise the air miles of your food? You would like a job? You would like money in your pocket to go and have a pint of beer, eating (bacon flavoured) Frazzles (a popular vote on another thread)? You would like a home that you can call your own to return to once you've had that pint? You want to protect the natural beauty that we have across this country? Are you sure you would like to have an open door policy with Europe? Or _might_ it be better that - as a country - we can pick and choose who comes here and stays through a visa application process - allowing us to control the impact of net immigration, and ensuring that the majority of the population benefits?
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Padfoot - please take your petty arguments elsewhere as this is a decent thread about the EU... Don't get it locked
SM
The avuncular one
Does this emoji sum up my feelings on the subject?
I have no idea what that emoji is....
Anyway...
Lads, debate and discuss but please not negatively personalise this. We are referees not simple minded, back stabbing, self serving politicians after all.
Why is there no BOOM emoji (@Ross - where is the boom emoji!!!)
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
So you believe that racism and the dismissal of the slave trade is 'petty'? Nice.
Kind of back on topic but the announcement in London today about travel costs shows just how little you can trust what any politician says. For those that don't know Sadiq Khan's main mayoral election promise was that transport fares for Londoners would be parked at current rates until 2020, and I'm pretty sure that swung the vote in his favour. He was constantly asked where the funding was coming from and refused to answer other than saying he had plans and it would be covered
Less than 6 weeks after being elected he has today caused outrage by announcing it is only single tickets and Oyster pay as you go that is frozen, season tickets (which cover about 80% of people living and working in London) will continue to rise at the same rate as train fares. And to make it worse, to make up the money to pay for capping single and PAYG tickets he is proposing cutting benefits received by staff, including the ability fort their families to travel at reduced rates. Even more ironic as they will now threaten strikes and that was also part of his manifesto - i.e no more union strikes on the tube ....
I suspect very similar will happen to Vote Leaves £100 million a week extra for the NHS. Very easy to promise something before you are elected, once you get your way and the reality kicks in it often becomes very difficult to deliver your promises. And even more difficult for Vote Leave as they won't be in power whatever happens, at least Sadiq Khan was elected to fail to deliver what he promised ..!
Less than 6 weeks after being elected he has today caused outrage by announcing it is only single tickets and Oyster pay as you go that is frozen, season tickets (which cover about 80% of people living and working in London) will continue to rise at the same rate as train fares. And to make it worse, to make up the money to pay for capping single and PAYG tickets he is proposing cutting benefits received by staff, including the ability fort their families to travel at reduced rates. Even more ironic as they will now threaten strikes and that was also part of his manifesto - i.e no more union strikes on the tube ....
I suspect very similar will happen to Vote Leaves £100 million a week extra for the NHS. Very easy to promise something before you are elected, once you get your way and the reality kicks in it often becomes very difficult to deliver your promises. And even more difficult for Vote Leave as they won't be in power whatever happens, at least Sadiq Khan was elected to fail to deliver what he promised ..!
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
My cousin worked in Sadiq Khan's office when he was MP for Tooting about 10 years ago.
He said then he would do well for himself.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
Really no need for this post!
I cant write on here what I think of Sadiq Khan ... or the Labour party in general.
@Padfoot shut the hell up ... nobody cares about the slave trade ... there ... I said it, got an issue with it then please drop me a PM and ill interest you with all kinds of things mummy and daddy never taught you whilst growing up
@Padfoot shut the hell up ... nobody cares about the slave trade ... there ... I said it, got an issue with it then please drop me a PM and ill interest you with all kinds of things mummy and daddy never taught you whilst growing up
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Provoked but still unnecessary.
I cant write on here what I think of Sadiq Khan ... or the Labour party in general.
@Padfoot shut the hell up ... nobody cares about the slave trade ... there ... I said it, got an issue with it then please drop me a PM and ill interest you with all kinds of things mummy and daddy never taught you whilst growing up
Next you'll be telling me the holocaust didn't happen either......
You really are a charmless hate filled little boy aren't you?
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