HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
I appreciate this thread has the potential to be locked, so I emplore my colleagues to not get into bickering.
But for those interested in politics, in or out?
But for those interested in politics, in or out?
In or Out?
- Thread starter HertsFinest
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I'm conflicted. The law student in me, knowing what I know about our actual obligations to the EU (as opposed to some of the nonsense in the printed press), wants to stay in the EU. It is difficult, however, to ignore the obvious issues in relation to restrictions on trade and the immigration issues that are caused by our EU obligations.
For me, it comes down to taking a massive jump into the unknown and the benefits of remaining within the EU outweigh the benefits of leaving. That's just my opinion though.
The British voters need to make an informed decision. Both of the campaigns are based fundamentally on scare mongering rather than fact, which is why I think that every voter needs to take the time to read and do some research. Do not just be lead by the media or the respective in/out campaigns; this is about the future of our country, not the opinions or personalties of our politicians.
For me, it comes down to taking a massive jump into the unknown and the benefits of remaining within the EU outweigh the benefits of leaving. That's just my opinion though.
The British voters need to make an informed decision. Both of the campaigns are based fundamentally on scare mongering rather than fact, which is why I think that every voter needs to take the time to read and do some research. Do not just be lead by the media or the respective in/out campaigns; this is about the future of our country, not the opinions or personalties of our politicians.
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I support remaining in the EU. But there are still many, many undecided voters and unfortunately at the moment both sides are, as @Matthew says, scaremongering and the media don't help by making the debate about the personal opinions of politicians.
The public needs and deserves factual information, pros and cons without the political influence; but I don't think we're going to get that any time soon
The public needs and deserves factual information, pros and cons without the political influence; but I don't think we're going to get that any time soon
Kes
I'll Decide ...
A friend of mine asked me the other day - "if Britain wasn't actually part of the EU as it is today and somebody was asking you if we should now join it - what would be your answer?" 
I'm for out. The notion of being effectively governed by a bunch of unelected foreigners who aren't actually accountable to anyone but themselves is one that is too strange a concept for me. The "EUSSR" is becoming more controlling by the year and is not what Ted Heath signed us up to years ago.
I'm for out. The notion of being effectively governed by a bunch of unelected foreigners who aren't actually accountable to anyone but themselves is one that is too strange a concept for me. The "EUSSR" is becoming more controlling by the year and is not what Ted Heath signed us up to years ago.
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
I am definitely...... OUT! The money spent on EU membership would be far better spent on sectors such as health care and what little industry we have left in this country!
They can stick their "United States of Europe" where the sun doesn't shine as far as I am concerned!
They can stick their "United States of Europe" where the sun doesn't shine as far as I am concerned!
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Kes
I'll Decide ...
I am definitely...... OUT! The money spent on EU membership would be far better spent on sectors such as health care and what little industry we have left in this country!
They can stick their "United States of Europe" where the sun doesn't shine as far as I am concerned!
That's the whole issue mate.
The whole "EU" thing is being presented like it somehow benefits us - the populace/voters.
It doesn't. It benefits the people who run it.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
For me
Common market: absolutely
The EUSSR: never
We didn't sign up for the EU, we signed up for the common market which is a great benefit.
Common market: absolutely
The EUSSR: never
We didn't sign up for the EU, we signed up for the common market which is a great benefit.
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
It's a tough one for sure. I'm undecided solely because the negatives are complete equals to the positives for me.
Perhaps the best route is to stay in and negotiate a better deal for us. But can't imagine other member states would allow us any special treatment so we're back to square one.
Perhaps the best route is to stay in and negotiate a better deal for us. But can't imagine other member states would allow us any special treatment so we're back to square one.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
If only Cameron could negotiate.
The way it's been sold to us that he got a great deal is laughable.
He started at 50% of what he promised he'd ask for then the EU agreed to a small part of that and he came back like some kind of war hero!
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Precisely. Same as anything. Even if your negotiating a deal on your mobile contract. You start at 50p and the operator wants £50 and you walk away with something in the middle.
He started below the middle
He started below the middle
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
Precisely. Same as anything. Even if your negotiating a deal on your mobile contract. You start at 50p and the operator wants £50 and you walk away with something in the middle.
He started below the middle
He started at £45 and walked away like a war hero with £47.50. Well done that man.
You know the second rule of negotiation?
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Go on...
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Run away.Just kidding.
Always leave the other party thinking they've won.
In fairness he's done that.... But they're also correct
A friend of mine asked me the other day - "if Britain wasn't actually part of the EU as it is today and somebody was asking you if we should now join it - what would be your answer?"
I'm for out. The notion of being effectively governed by a bunch of unelected foreigners who aren't actually accountable to anyone but themselves is one that is too strange a concept for me. The "EUSSR" is becoming more controlling by the year and is not what Ted Heath signed us up to years ago.
Who are these unelected foreigners of whom you speak? Do you think you vote for the civil servants and council officers who run this country? Do the MPs from Scotland Wales and N Ireland reflect your views?
Too many to quote, but the Federal Europe Project is dead. Dead. To state otherwise is mistaken. Why? When the EU expanded to 25 members it brought in many states who have fought for many centuries to be independent. First under absolute monarachies, then under Nazi occupation and finally under the iron fist of the USSR.
Why would they want to be dominated from the centre again? It won't happen.
Another counter argument that had me screaming "w----" at the TV was a leave campaigner yesterday, was the idiot saying, "We need to leave to get control our laws again, get away from the European Court."
If you're anti-EU or undecided, don't let this fallcy sway you. My biggest issue with the leave campaigners is the misinformation, and poor research they're doing. The EU and the Courts are separate. Vote to leave the EU and that's all you do. We're still bound by the decisions of the European Court. As a Member state we have the right to challenge EU decisions in the court, and if we win, the EU has to change. Non-EU members are still bound by the Court too.
Me personally - when I went to Uni the first time I was a Eurosceptic. When I actually looked at it in detail and cut through the tabloid BS I realised it wasn't this nightmarish monster I feared. The EU has done so much for us all not least a minimum of 20 days paid leave for full-time employees, that to leave will see those rights eroded.
The free trade arguments don't hold water either. Will China really want a free-trade agreement with us? Where they have to admit British goods to compete directly with their own, free of tariffs and barriers? Really? *cough* Steel? *cough*
And as for immigration, all those bloody immigrants, coming here, doing no work and taking our benefits money, staying in their own small communities, refusing to learn our language and integrate....say the Spanish on the Costas....
Why would they want to be dominated from the centre again? It won't happen.
Another counter argument that had me screaming "w----" at the TV was a leave campaigner yesterday, was the idiot saying, "We need to leave to get control our laws again, get away from the European Court."
If you're anti-EU or undecided, don't let this fallcy sway you. My biggest issue with the leave campaigners is the misinformation, and poor research they're doing. The EU and the Courts are separate. Vote to leave the EU and that's all you do. We're still bound by the decisions of the European Court. As a Member state we have the right to challenge EU decisions in the court, and if we win, the EU has to change. Non-EU members are still bound by the Court too.
Me personally - when I went to Uni the first time I was a Eurosceptic. When I actually looked at it in detail and cut through the tabloid BS I realised it wasn't this nightmarish monster I feared. The EU has done so much for us all not least a minimum of 20 days paid leave for full-time employees, that to leave will see those rights eroded.
The free trade arguments don't hold water either. Will China really want a free-trade agreement with us? Where they have to admit British goods to compete directly with their own, free of tariffs and barriers? Really? *cough* Steel? *cough*
And as for immigration, all those bloody immigrants, coming here, doing no work and taking our benefits money, staying in their own small communities, refusing to learn our language and integrate....say the Spanish on the Costas....
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