ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
The Level 4 referee I observed on Monday performed in front of 1,598 paying spectators (a real "local derby")
Ex Pros becoming referees
- Thread starter lincs22
- Start date
Well sure. But I don't see the news articles suggesting we should be recruiting musicians or former local politicians or motivational speakers for the job. And no one has bothered to assess the public performance/speaking experience of other referees outside of our WC final ref outside of a blanket assumption than none are ex-players. That might actually be right - but it's not actually the point that's being made.
The strong implication is that there is some skill unique to former players that justifies giving them a whistle and chucking them in at medium-high levels of football. Some kind of unique "understanding" of what the referee "should" be doing.
But as far as I can tell, the only thing unique to ex-players is that they often start off refereeing as they wish they'd been refereed, struggle with the fact this gives them no consistency or control in a match and then either adapt to a more classic referee-like method or hang up the whistle <10 games in.
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Definitely but loads of us have jobs with that experience so are we getting fast tracked too? Or just the blokes who’ve already got fat stacks of cash and the privilege of top level play?
I read that Garth Crookes article and cringed, he really has no idea. He thinks ex-players have an entitlement to be fast tracked, so obviously that was turned down. I refer back to when Jermaine Jenus, regarded as the most intelligent footballer of recent years, slated the match officials on MoTD for giving an offside when the ball had been played backwards. What qualification would he have to be "fast tracked" when he doesn't even know a basic law?
I've done a 30 minute speech at a conference in front of over 1000 people, and I can absolutely assure you I was bricking it. The only time I'd been more nervous in my life was before giving a best mans speech where some of the content was very close to the bone, and a few pints beforehand had helped those nerves. I can't say that either of those experiences helped me in any way when refereeing in front of big crowds, it is a totally different experience.
I've done a 30 minute speech at a conference in front of over 1000 people, and I can absolutely assure you I was bricking it. The only time I'd been more nervous in my life was before giving a best mans speech where some of the content was very close to the bone, and a few pints beforehand had helped those nerves. I can't say that either of those experiences helped me in any way when refereeing in front of big crowds, it is a totally different experience.
And what did the assessor say to pick you up?If it was still painful after all this time it must have been really, really bad
Two problems really, the first was that my first two games had gone really well, although looking back on it they were one sided games with some of the better behaved teams. I let myself think that it was going to be easier than I thought at this level.
For the next game, I didn't know it at the time but the teams had history and really didn't like each other. Someone had also told both teams that I was a brand new referee at that level, and they were on at me right from kick off. I started making silly decisions, like clearly seeing a goal kick and signalling a corner, and the more I tried to put it right the worse I got, something that I unfortunately had a habit of doing even when I went up to L3. Had a red card for an elbow off the ball, but unfortunately I only saw the reaction and not the first offence that caused it. I gave a penalty where there were no appeals, managing to surprise everyone, and ended up losing all semblance of control. I was physically and mentally drained at the end, once of those games where you just want the ground to open up and swallow you to get you out of there.
Basically I wasn't ready. The assessor highlighted numerous problems, I was running too much and coming way off my diagonal as if I had no assistants, and this meant I was missing things. And when I gave a decision I always then looked down at the ground, and the players seized on this as a sign of weakness, We didn't get the mark back then, but if it was above 60 I would have been surprised, but way more important than the mark was the fact he spent so much time with me trying to build me back up.
As I said, I'd gone 6 to 4 and really only had experience of refereeing on the AFC, a league known for its sporting behaviour. There was no requirement back then to be doing supply league lines, so I had absolutely no experience of step 5 football.
The context of this might need explaining to me. Why wasn't it offside as surely the player would have been behind the ball (therefore the offside line). What am I missing in this context?
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I feel sorry for you for failing to learn from it. You really missed a learning opportunity to apply the experience in another environment.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
The direction the ball is kicked is totally irrelevant to OS. All that matters is where the players were at the moment the ball was kicked, not received. It isn’t uncommon for an OSP player to come back from OSP to play a ball that had been kicked backwards.
A player is stood in an offside position, the ball is passed backwards and he runs from his offside position to play it.
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Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
I think you mean, "Why was it offside ..." - and no, he surely wouldn't have been behind the ball - that's the whole point.
What you are missing is that the player was ahead of the ball when it was played by a team mate, and then came back from an offside position to become involved in active play.
BAFRA #77
Member
I think the Hungarians make it a stipulation of employment on national TV covering the sport.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
On that basic knowledge point - An ex QPR player, now club ambassador thought then when a GK caught the ball just outside the box recently (Sky match v Sheff Utd - some of you may have seen the incident), that the handball should not have been given because he had a foot inside the PA
.I've seen players appealing for offside from a GK, most STILL don't understand the uncontested drop ball scenario and also at LR, I once saw a referee try and eventually give up to get a team to take a fk for offside in the oppo half.
You're quite right, most players, at all levels, do not have even a basic grasp of the laws.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
And yesterday's ambassadors for ex professionals were Mr Keown and Mr Murphy - again!
Newcastle goal - MK " Yes he was offside but the ball hit the GK so OK"
Liverpool goal - DM - "That's a deflection, he's offside. They don't even apply that law consistently in the PL"
Newcastle goal - MK " Yes he was offside but the ball hit the GK so OK"
Liverpool goal - DM - "That's a deflection, he's offside. They don't even apply that law consistently in the PL"
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
given the shifting interpretations on deflections vs. Play, it‘s hardly surprising that commentators have trouble with that one.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
In some instances, yes, but the guy jumped off the floor and headed the ball - don't have to be particularly 'expert' to call that a 'play'
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
I actually thought he had a point. The ball came off a defender's head, to a player who had been in an offside position when the ball last touched a team mate. The defender was stretching to make contact and almost certainly did not get the ball to go where he would have wanted it to go.
We've seen almost identical scenarios recently where the offside was given.
But surely misplaying the ball doesn't make it a deflection, you're just playing the ball badly
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
I was just going to say the same to Peter!
A misplaced pass or header is not at all the same thing as the ball just hitting the leg. foot or head - which is what I would call a deflection.
It does now
Refer to the much read IFAB circular 26
Or should I say, 'it should now'
Think we may as well chuck that circular in the bin with many that preceded it
In this scenario is doesn’t, wolves contact meets all of these:
“
The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:
• The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
• The ball was not moving quickly
• The direction of the ball was not unexpected
• The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control”