A&H

ATM v ARSENIL

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I would pick our leaders brains some more of that statement
If you were to penalise gk for say, having ball in hand for 20 secs, thats an offence which involves handling and could incur a caution?
 
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You’re wasted here Kylie, are you sure someone hasn’t hacked your account and is talking complete sense on your behalf?? ;)
 
I would pick our leaders brains some more of that statement
If you were to penalise gk for say, having ball in hand for 20 secs, thats an offence which involves handling and could incur a caution?

No because you should have penalized them well before 20 seconds.
 
Law 12 says: "Inside their penalty area, the goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick or any related sanction"

David Elleray says: "a goalkeeper cannot receive a disciplinary sanction for a handling offence"

Is there a definition of sanctions related to direct free kicks? I don't think this is explicit.
 
No because you should have penalized them well before 20 seconds.


Ok lets make it ten secs and you have given them ample warning?
The offence might be time wasting, or holding ball for more than the allowed time, but its central to it being in his hands, therefore its handling
 
The offence might be time wasting, or holding ball for more than the allowed time, but its central to it being in his hands, therefore its handling

What would you caution them for? It can't be DR. The LOTG give you a big tool to deal with this. Give the IDFK to the opponents in the penalty area. I doubt the keeper will waste time again.
 
What would you caution them for? It can't be DR. The LOTG give you a big tool to deal with this. Give the IDFK to the opponents in the penalty area. I doubt the keeper will waste time again.




And if he does it four times with team 3-0 up? Extreme yes but entirley possible for a caution
 
EDIT: This may help. The offence here is not a deliberate handling of the ball. The offence is touching the ball with hands after being deliberately kicked to him by a team mate. These are two different offences (both involve touching the ball with hand). One is punishable by DFK, the other by IFK.

They're not though. They're both handball offences, it's just that a Goalkeeper is immune to being punished for it by a direct freekick offence in the box. That is all that the law is saying; There's no seperate offence, there's no separate punishment here, it's to me, black and white.


For me that would be a misinterpretation of the law. That clause is clearly written for a field player which commits a deliberate handball offence. By no means any part of the clause should apply to a gal keepers in their own PA. That is why the "except" caveat is there. It is not there to exempt keeper from other offences which involves handling the ball.

Again, I disagree. The clause is part of the the process of determining a DOSGO via freekick offence, which you were ignoring. If we dismiss the argument that it isn't a handling offence, which is just absurd anyway (look at the very definition for handball), and we say that this is a handling offence, punishable by a 'freekick' - because this is the only loophole available to punish the keeper with a red card, then by all rights you must examine those clauses. And of course, once we do, we come into the feedback loop; It's a handling offence, resulting in a freekick, that he still cannot be sent off for thanks to the immunity, whichever way you'd like to cut it.

The only way to ever get that 'it's a freekick offence, we can send him off' to work, is to entirely ignore those clauses, which in my view is categorically wrong. Or, just pretend it isn't a handling offence, which again, is absurd.

I don't think your reasoning holds up personally, I don't mean any offence, but it's just bypasses the obstacles in order to get to the preferred solution. I'm in agreement with Ellery's assessment that it's pretty clear in the Laws that it would be a handling offence and there can't be a red card for DOSGO. - I'm no good at putting my point across though! :p

Edit: Having said all that though, I do agree it needs looking at to shift it in the way the thrown object law has been changed, because although rare, it is an easy out for the keeper if he gets under pressure from a pass-back.
 
Ok lets make it ten secs and you have given them ample warning?
The offence might be time wasting, or holding ball for more than the allowed time, but its central to it being in his hands, therefore its handling
Still no. This is not a cautionable offence.
Its not delaying the restart as whilst the keeper holds the ball it is still in play thus no restart has been delayed.
At a stretch you could caution for persistent infringement but in law the only sanction required is idfk
 
And if he does it four times with team 3-0 up? Extreme yes but entirley possible for a caution
But you arent sanctioning a handling offence.
You are punishing persistent infringement of law.

Which I think is a more than plausible outcome if a keeper commits the offence that many times.
 
Ok lets make it ten secs and you have given them ample warning?
The offence might be time wasting, or holding ball for more than the allowed time, but its central to it being in his hands, therefore its handling

The offence wouldn't be handling though, it would be failing to release the ball after 6 seconds which doesn't entail a sanction. Only way round it would be PI perhaps or something like that? Perhaps lack of respect for the game and USB caution?
 
The 'IFAB Laws of the Game' book should be torn up and rewritten from scratch imo. It's ridiculous that intelligent experienced referees end up debating the fragmented, contradictory content. The game is governed by corrupt & incompetent moronic organisations, leaving us squabbling over their nonsense
 
Sorry, this topic has to close. It is so off title, the discussion about goalkeepers handling is in a feedback loop we will never escape from. If you want to continue that, start a new topic.
 
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