A&H

Are you giving a foul for this shoulder charge

Are you giving a foul for this shoulder charge

  • Total voters
    28
deusex

deusex

RefChat Addict
Came across this video during one of my "watching crap on youtube" marathons.
Absolutely noone appeals. It looks such a foul to me.
Am I missing something?

 
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Good vid. I have said yes but with tendency as it just crept into the careless area. Any more speed and it would have been a definite careless and a confident yes.

Is it a pen or just DFK? Any cards?
 
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Mewcenary said:
I'm happy with that. Shoulder charge, wins the ball, no-one complains. Don't go looking for fouls that nobody wants.
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I mean, does anyone ever "win the ball" with a shoulder charge? It just looks to me like he barges the other kid out of the way.
Everything says foul to me but not a hint of appeal in a YOUTH match!!
I'd love any clarification or guidelines on this.
 
Yeah, I've gone with yes as well. The lack of appeal can be put down to the fact that no one in any match I've ever refereed seems to know that "charging" is an offence.

Ice hockey has a very strict interpretation on how many "steps" you can take before hitting someone becomes a charge and I think when you're coming from that far away, it's your responsibility to slow down and/or go to ground before hitting the opponent.
 
Foul all day long for me!

Defender makes no attempt to play the ball until after he's nailed his opponent. He wasn't already in possession of the ball and isn't trying to shield the ball in anyway, just a straight forward barge.
 
The point of a legal shoulder charge isn't to play the ball it's about dispossessing the opponent.
 
bester said:
The point of a legal shoulder charge isn't to play the ball it's about dispossessing the opponent.
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Is there an illegal shoulder charge? If so how does it differ from a legal one.

Must also say, the laws of the game never refer to a legal 'shoulder' charge but that a player "may be fairly charged by an opponent"
 
one said:
Is there an illegal shoulder charge? If so how does it differ from a legal one.
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When it becomes at least careless e.g shoulder into players back, too much force used etc.

one said:
Is there an illegal shoulder charge? If so how does it differ from a legal one.

Must also say, the laws of the game never refer to a legal 'shoulder' charge but that a player "may be fairly charged by an opponent"
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Fair point, however I can't think of any legal charge that wouldn't involve using the shoulder.

"Charge (an opponent) Physical challenge against an opponent, usually using the shoulder and upper arm (which is kept close to the body)"
 
Lol what kind of prison league is that footage from?

Borderline assault and I would be raising the whistle to my lips, before realising nobody is asking for it and slowly moving the whistle back down again :oops:
 
Be a brave (or crazy) referee to give that in the box. You'd be surprising 22 players and in my experience that rarely ends well.
 
RustyRef said:
Be a brave (or crazy) referee to give that in the box. You'd be surprising 22 players and in my experience that rarely ends well.
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I reminds me of those tackles in the box that are allowed in the EPL where once the striker has got off a shot you can basically obliterate him!!
I award pens in my games as it's a pet hate. Even the defence aren't expecting it and it causes murders.
At least in that scenario I can say the EPL refs are wrong and I'm right.
With shoulder barges, I'm def not sure who's right!
The 50/50 poll split shows just how unclear the laws are on this
 
deusex said:
I reminds me of those tackles in the box that are allowed in the EPL where once the striker has got off a shot you can basically obliterate him!!
I award pens in my games as it's a pet hate. Even the defence aren't expecting it and it causes murders.
At least in that scenario I can say the EPL refs are wrong and I'm right.
With shoulder barges, I'm def not sure who's right!
The 50/50 poll split shows just how unclear the laws are on this
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I bet even the IFAB technical committee members would have 50-50 split on this one :)
 
I'm tempted to say yes to a foul on this one. For shoulder charges I look for it to be combined with playing the ball. In this case it looks more like charge first then take the ball.
 
I'd give a foul for that, I know no surprises refereeing is a good way to keep match control, but I do have a tendency to simply give what I see, regardless of where the offence occurs and whether anyone mentions it.
 
Playing distance to the ball is within my tolerable limits. As a striker myself (when I play), I would always expect to be hit in that position. Striker needed to be stronger there, it's not as if he's burst from the halfway line, he should always expect to be challenged there. Stand up, tense up and shield that ball mon petit fleur!
 
This is close - and to be honest I'd want a better view than this. But from what I can see, it looks like the player has used appropriate force to take that field position immediately behind the ball and doesn't appear to have dropped the shoulder or done the final, heavy step.
 
If I was watching this game and a ref blew either way I wouldn't have a problem with it. FWIW my initial reaction was no foul, neither player had possession and the defender was simply stronger.
 
It's one of those challenges that could go either way, I probably wouldn't give it.

That said, it is also probably one of those challenges where the phrase if its anywhere else (IE not in the box) it would be a foul.
 
The problem with "no surprises" refereeing is that you can end up waiting a few seconds for the "no surprises" criteria to be met and then find yourself facing (not unjustified) accusations of only giving it because one team asked for it. Much simpler to just referee as you see it, and I'd be giving this as the player clearly has no interest in the ball until well after the opponent has been sent flying.
 
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