A&H

Tottenham Hotspur vs Man City

I don't think it's right to say the PL is the only competition not applying VAR to goalkeeper encroachment - the Champions League haven't done so either, with some obvious offences not being punished.

The thing is people went 'mad' when VAR was regularly having penalties retaken over the summer and they'd have gone mad if the penalty hadn't been awarded on Sunday. It's very difficult to achieve an ideal balance.

I don't necessarily think there's an issue with saying that on-field officials will rule on encroachment so you get a more instant decision (rather than everyone celebrating and then a minute later a retake is ordered) and only the relatively obvious offences are penalised - the problem though is that on-field officials aren't penalising it at all.
 
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'People' went mad when a penalty was retaken when a keeper was an inch off the line, nobody moaned if she was 2 feet off. GK encroachment doesn't seem to be looked at by the onfield officials (what else does the AR have to do?) and player encroachment is ignored by the onfield officials and only looked at by VAR if the player involved becomes active, not in accordance with Law. It could mean that two players (1 from each side) encroach identically but instead of an automatic retake in accordance with Law it depends which one touches the ball first. PGMOL are just picking and choosing wihich Laws to apply.
 
'People' went mad when a penalty was retaken when a keeper was an inch off the line, nobody moaned if she was 2 feet off. GK encroachment doesn't seem to be looked at by the onfield officials (what else does the AR have to do?) and player encroachment is ignored by the onfield officials and only looked at by VAR if the player involved becomes active, not in accordance with Law. It could mean that two players (1 from each side) encroach identically but instead of an automatic retake in accordance with Law it depends which one touches the ball first. PGMOL are just picking and choosing wihich Laws to apply.

I think the way PGMO are applying VAR to encroachment (outside the goalkeeper situation) is the same as everywhere else; it's only penalised if they have a material impact.

You can say people were annoyed because the goalkeeper was only an inch off the line but this is the thing that needs addressing really. What level of being off hte line is acceptable and what is not?
 
'People' went mad when a penalty was retaken when a keeper was an inch off the line, nobody moaned if she was 2 feet off. GK encroachment doesn't seem to be looked at by the onfield officials (what else does the AR have to do?) and player encroachment is ignored by the onfield officials and only looked at by VAR if the player involved becomes active, not in accordance with Law. It could mean that two players (1 from each side) encroach identically but instead of an automatic retake in accordance with Law it depends which one touches the ball first. PGMOL are just picking and choosing wihich Laws to apply.
Personally, whenever I've refereed with NAR's, I've told them to focus on ball over the line ONLY at penalties. That way, as the referee, I can apply the same standards at both ends. And generally speaking, I only want to be calling for a retake if it's obvious enough from my position - if you need to be on the line to spot any encroachment, then you're going to be picking up very minor infringements that no one expects or wants.
 
'People' went mad when a penalty was retaken when a keeper was an inch off the line, nobody moaned if she was 2 feet off. GK encroachment doesn't seem to be looked at by the onfield officials (what else does the AR have to do?) and player encroachment is ignored by the onfield officials and only looked at by VAR if the player involved becomes active, not in accordance with Law. It could mean that two players (1 from each side) encroach identically but instead of an automatic retake in accordance with Law it depends which one touches the ball first. PGMOL are just picking and choosing wihich Laws to apply.
So it seems GK encroachment was universally ignored since the disastrous WWC
Where would you draw the line?
2, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 or 36 inches?
Wherever its drawn, VAR can accurately (with a degree of precision) measure it... and would therefore have to do so, for every PK. Que... red lines are back.
Once anything factual is policed by VAR, accuracy, precision and forensic measurement are inescapable
The reason GLT works so well, is that we get a cartoon representation on screen (instead of video frames), which psychologically, we all accept as perfect
 
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Personally, whenever I've refereed with NAR's, I've told them to focus on ball over the line ONLY at penalties. That way, as the referee, I can apply the same standards at both ends. And generally speaking, I only want to be calling for a retake if it's obvious enough from my position - if you need to be on the line to spot any encroachment, then you're going to be picking up very minor infringements that no one expects or wants.

For me it depends on my ARs. Law 6 tells ARs to signal if the GK moves, and I'm not going to take that away without a reason (and I'd feel insulted by an R who did so). As R, I'm responsible for encroachment and the kicker, so I'd prefer to have the AR have the GK--as long as I can trust the AR to follow my instruction that it better be a clear breach. With ARs I fully trust, I tell them to flag straight up as the magic book says. With less experienced ARs, I ask for a more subtle signal so it is less obvious if I overrule them (I typically ask for flag across the waist, which used to be the official signal in the US before the magic book said for the AR to raise the flag; I've also asked them to step sideways onto the field.)

On KFTM, however, where I no longer have to think about encroachment, unless I REALLY trust the AR, I take the GK. (Though, come to think of it, I haven't actually had a game go to kicks since the changes to be more strict on GKs.)
 
I must admit that if an AR is going to give GK encroachment I want them to be a good step off the line, something that is obvious to everybody watching. Like SL I won't take it away from ARs as they are part of my team and I want them to feel fully included. Removing something that Law says they should be responsible for is likely to go against that.

If everybody is only going to call player encroachment if they become active in the game then IFAB need to get the Law changed. I penalise it according to how the Law is written now.
 
Personally, whenever I've refereed with NAR's, I've told them to focus on ball over the line ONLY at penalties. That way, as the referee, I can apply the same standards at both ends. And generally speaking, I only want to be calling for a retake if it's obvious enough from my position - if you need to be on the line to spot any encroachment, then you're going to be picking up very minor infringements that no one expects or wants.


That's spot on and you're 100% right. You nor anyone else would expect a retake for minimal movement - likewise all will accept a very tight offside call and will realise there are limits to what the naked eye can see. The problem is with VAR calling offsides that are literally a few centimetres on or off but NOT calling goalkeeper movement off the line by the same or bigger margins.

As I've said above, we as referees can understand the logic, but its an impossible sell to the wider football community.
 
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