A&H

The media again avoids the real issue of the behaviour on TV

santa sangria

santa sangria

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www.theguardian.com

‘Matter of time’: experts warn of risks to referees amid epidemic of abuse

There are calls for tougher sanctions against those who abuse or attack match officials as the number and severity of incidents continues to rise
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Another here. This one does mention the culpability of the media in relation to referee baiting.

But fails again to even mention the real underlying problem - behaviour on TV combined with the EPL crippling top level referee decision making - encouraging abuse and preventing cards.

I am getting increasingly pi**ed off with our friends in the media about this. It’s nice to see this ”glut” of articles but it’s coming across a lot like climate change - the media pushing responsibility down the pyramid when the real issues and long term solutions are with the major organizations.
 
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santa sangria said:
www.theguardian.com

‘Matter of time’: experts warn of risks to referees amid epidemic of abuse

There are calls for tougher sanctions against those who abuse or attack match officials as the number and severity of incidents continues to rise
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Another here. This one does mention the culpability of the media in relation to referee baiting.

But fails again to even mention the real underlying problem - behaviour on TV combined with the EPL crippling top level referee decision making - encouraging abuse and preventing cards.

I am getting increasingly pi**ed off with our friends in the media about this. It’s nice to see this ”glut” of articles but it’s coming across a lot like climate change - the media pushing responsibility down the pyramid when the real issues and long term solutions are with the major organizations.
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Yeah I understand what you're saying but they are never gonna stop their behaviour. As that is why people flock to their websites and read their articles. And almost all of these companies and websites are for profit.
 
Kref said:
Yeah I understand what you're saying but they are never gonna stop their behaviour. As that is why people flock to their websites and read their articles. And almost all of these companies and websites are for profit.
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I was pointing the finger at the EPL, FA and TV companies more...
 
Mason Mount - cracking player - looks like a great role model to me - expect him to be in the England team for the next 3 world cups.

On TV now, lies/cheats to claim a throw that obviously will not go his way as the ball rolls slowly out. Says, mildy shouting, clearly, on camera, close up, to the referee: ”that’s sh**, that’s f***king sh**, that’s sh**.”

That, my son, is a YELLOW FU**ING CARD.
And all the time the EPL do not instruct/allow/encourage EPL referees to sanction abusive behaviour like this, it is the EPL that continue to be the biggest contributory factor to grassroots referee abuse.

Take your fu***** body cams and your piddling fines and shi** respect campaigns… and let the referees on TV use the actual f***ing laws!
 
The players are the problem. Bruno Fernandes was right in the face of Stuart Attwell after the penalty, which was a 100% correct decision. He's just said on his post patch interview that he didn't see the challenge as he was looking the other way. Bizarrely he then added that if referees give penalties for contact like that it will become a big problem, that would be the contact that he had already said he didn't see.

The problem is they are coached to appeal for everything and protest everything from 8 years old, it is way too ingrained to fix easily.
 
RustyRef said:
it is way too ingrained to fix easily.
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I just don’t think that’s true. The United penalty today - and Mount’s tirade - these are perfect examples.

As a fairly well trained level 5-4 I know that in a game of mine Mount gets an an immediate yellow and a severe talking to. And players protesting the penalty like that and goading each other - I have to be proactive, use the whistle and the card is coming out much earlier. I just am not allowed to stand on the spot waiting two minutes. If I do this an observer will crucify me and I will not get promoted.

Atwell and the whole cast of the EPL circus are now LAST WEEK’S REF! And this hits the grassroots level 7s, 6s and all the teenage first years really hard - it destroys refereeing for so many before they’ve even got started. You can tell me that is football. But that is football because of the culture that trickles down from the top.

It’s ingrained in young players because it’s happening ON TV. Book Mount, book Fernandez, book Azpi for rolling around on the floor. Clean up the game on TV. Then the 8 year olds will stop before they start missing games because of suspension.
 
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santa sangria said:
Mason Mount - cracking player - looks like a great role model to me - expect him to be in the England team for the next 3 world cups.

On TV now, lies/cheats to claim a throw that obviously will not go his way as the ball rolls slowly out. Says, mildy shouting, clearly, on camera, close up, to the referee: ”that’s sh**, that’s f***king sh**, that’s sh**.”

That, my son, is a YELLOW FU**ING CARD.
And all the time the EPL do not instruct/allow/encourage EPL referees to sanction abusive behaviour like this, it is the EPL that continue to be the biggest contributory factor to grassroots referee abuse.

Take your fu***** body cams and your piddling fines and shi** respect campaigns… and let the referees on TV use the actual f***ing laws!
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You ok hun?
 
It's not an insurmountable problem to fix from my POV, but why would FIFA (and all its sphere of influence) risk change when the game is so financially lucrative with the existing culture? Do nothing and the money continues to flood in. Change inherently involves risk, so why change when there's nothing to be gained financially? I can't really envisage anything ever happening to forge a different future

Personally, I think the players are only interested in 3 points and they learn faster than they're given credit for. But we'll never find out
 
Big Cat said:
It's not an insurmountable problem to fix from my POV, but why would FIFA (and all its sphere of influence) risk change when the game is so financially lucrative with the existing culture? Do nothing and the money continues to flood in. Change inherently involves risk, so why change when there's nothing to be gained financially? I can't really envisage anything ever happening to forge a different future

Personally, I think the players are only interested in 3 points and they learn faster than they're given credit for. But we'll never find out
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Thats what I was trying to say most if not all of these companies in the scene of football are in it for the money, so why would they change to a model of less money, when they could continue the toxicity and make stacks of money.
 
Yeah because players harassing referees is a new phenomena in the English game

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It's been that way for too long now.
As already mentioned on here, the change needs to filter down from the top but we're talking about a change of culture here and that doesn't happen over the course of a season or two. More like a generation or two.
For as long as players, coaches and spectators all see themselves and behave as one, the problem will continue. The referee is little more than an annoyance for them and can be treated like the panto bad guy at any time.
 
Cash is king here. Let’s tell it like it is.

Abuse of referees happens at grassroots because abuse of referees at the top level is part of the circus that makes loads of money for FIFA, UEFA, EPL, prem clubs and makes great business for media companies.

They choose to sacrifice US!
 
Kref said:
Thats what I was trying to say most if not all of these companies in the scene of football are in it for the money, so why would they change to a model of less money, when they could continue the toxicity and make stacks of money.
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It can't just be blamed on money, as has been happening for decades, right back to days when there was no TV money and players were paid very little.
 
Kref said:
But the problem at the moment is money
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But that doesn't fit the actual evidence. Players getting in the face of and surrounding referees has been going on for decades, if it wasn't down to money in the 70s it can't just be down to money now. Not saying that money doesn't play some part, but it can't be the only factor.

As I said, it is ingrained, you can't fix something that has been going on for 50 years overnight.
 
RustyRef said:
But that doesn't fit the actual evidence. Players getting in the face of and surrounding referees has been going on for decades, if it wasn't down to money in the 70s it can't just be down to money now. Not saying that money doesn't play some part, but it can't be the only factor.

As I said, it is ingrained, you can't fix something that has been going on for 50 years overnight.
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You can't fix the whole of football overnight - but you could actually fix abuse of referees at the top level overnight. It would take thirty seconds to write the email to the whole select group to tell them to apply the laws and not ignore abuse and dissent. The premier league could do it today in time for the afternoon matches. And the players and coaches will respond. They are paid to.
 
santa sangria said:
You can't fix the whole of football overnight - but you could actually fix abuse of referees at the top level overnight. It would take thirty seconds to write the email to the whole select group to tell them to apply the laws and not ignore abuse and dissent. The premier league could do it today in time for the afternoon matches. And the players and coaches will respond. They are paid to.
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They would only respond after a lot of red cards and abandoned games. They already know they aren't allowed to surround referees as two clubs have been charged for doing so in the past week, yet they still do it.

No one is going to send that email as when it inevitably ends if a car crash they will be the ones out of a job, not the players, managers, etc. Plus it isn't just the EPL, and arguably is much worse in many other countries.

It has to start at FIFA, they could launch a campaign to stop abuse of referees and punish member associations that don't take action when it happens. The clubs and players also need to have a deterrent to stop it, and that isn't fines as they mean nothing to them. But they will notice if players are suspended and they get points deducted.
 
santa sangria said:
You can't fix the whole of football overnight - but you could actually fix abuse of referees at the top level overnight. It would take thirty seconds to write the email to the whole select group to tell them to apply the laws and not ignore abuse and dissent. The premier league could do it today in time for the afternoon matches. And the players and coaches will respond. They are paid to.
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More realistically, any 'sea change' would have to start at an appropriate time. And change would have to happen incrementally. But I don't know when change would come in because it's a world-wide problem and Leagues start at all different points in the calendar

It must be stressed though, this is not a PGMOL problem, it's a FIFA thing because it's no different the world over

It's all 'pie in the sky' though. We're wasting our breath. Whilst I'd predict effective change could happen quickly (because everyone is fundamentally motivated by achieving 3 points), the will isn't there because the existing circus (to which VAR now contributes to) drives the money machine whereas improved behaviour could perceivably pose a risk to the status quo
 
Gary Linekar was praised on social media for his opinion all abuse towards referees should be an immediate yellow card.

Assuming he means dissent rather than abuse (he best not be suggesting abuse should only be a yellow), then his heavily praised idea is something which already exists and isn’t applied.

I Personally think the responsibility lies on the FA dishing out stronger punishments at grassroots level rather than it being sorted at the higher level. Regardless of the almost non existence of dissent cards at the top level, referees on the whole at grassroots carry out sin bins and INOFFABUS reds regularly. They are doing their job and obviously the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. If Jurgen Klopp gets a 6 game ban that won’t stop Joe Bloggs at grassroots calling me a **** on Saturday.
 
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