santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Up here - in Finland no less - we have "customized" personal separate grades for men, women, girls and boys - separately for ref and AR.
So, someone who is a male UK L3-4 equivalent ref might have something like: ref M2/N1/B1/G1 AR: M3/N1/B2/G1
The mens and womens both have premier leagues - so M2 means the third tier. Guys don't get premier league women level - but sometimes stand in as ARs. B1/G1 means top tier U20s and U17s boys and U18s girls.
(And we have an automated system that assigns matches based on qualification, location and preferences - and a marketplace for "buying/selling" matches - all synced with the levels)
So, someone who is a male UK L3-4 equivalent ref might have something like: ref M2/N1/B1/G1 AR: M3/N1/B2/G1
The mens and womens both have premier leagues - so M2 means the third tier. Guys don't get premier league women level - but sometimes stand in as ARs. B1/G1 means top tier U20s and U17s boys and U18s girls.
(And we have an automated system that assigns matches based on qualification, location and preferences - and a marketplace for "buying/selling" matches - all synced with the levels)
this sounds interesting! i assume for 'lower down games' primarily?
You've mentioned this system before and it sounds amazing, I cannot understand why this isn't the standard here.
Meanwhile, I've had an email this morning from an appointments sec where the subject is this Saturday's date (when he hasn't given me a match), it's copied in to two other people (neither of which are who it's directed at) and the person it's directed at has just been instructed to try and meet with me. And no other context.
Was planning to try and get myself a game on a different league this weekend, but now I don't know if I'm supposed to just assume I have a game I haven't been told about on this league or if I'm actually free. Madness that this can't be centralised and run more effectively!
Meanwhile, I've had an email this morning from an appointments sec where the subject is this Saturday's date (when he hasn't given me a match), it's copied in to two other people (neither of which are who it's directed at) and the person it's directed at has just been instructed to try and meet with me. And no other context.
Was planning to try and get myself a game on a different league this weekend, but now I don't know if I'm supposed to just assume I have a game I haven't been told about on this league or if I'm actually free. Madness that this can't be centralised and run more effectively!
Agreed and you are correct.
In Cornwall we have a central appointments officer does all the leagues appointments here using a central platform - we have just moved on to yes ref, formerly using pitchside.
Saves having to keep multiple people informed of closed dates and what not.
We have central appointments in Sussex actually, but they're part time so all they do is dole out the referees to the different league ref secs.
Means it's just one email at the start of the month to close dates rather than 3 (+ update Pitchside for Isthmian U23s), but it still leaves issues like the one I describe where you can get "allocated" to the county league but they don't have a match for you, so you end up missing out on one of the good grassroots matches because they're all assigned before you're released.
Even something as simple as agreeing that all Sussex leagues should use (for example) Pitchside would be a huge step forwards, let alone introducing something as smart and flexible as that described by Santa!
Means it's just one email at the start of the month to close dates rather than 3 (+ update Pitchside for Isthmian U23s), but it still leaves issues like the one I describe where you can get "allocated" to the county league but they don't have a match for you, so you end up missing out on one of the good grassroots matches because they're all assigned before you're released.
Even something as simple as agreeing that all Sussex leagues should use (for example) Pitchside would be a huge step forwards, let alone introducing something as smart and flexible as that described by Santa!
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Yes, national FA organized matches (mens top 3 tiers, womens prem and U20 and U17 top tier boys) cannot be ”bought/sold” yourself. But everything else. I can browse all matches missing officials in the whole country, filter by date, area, pitch, division, level etc.
And I can take a game with a click. Moreover, if I’m ill or plans change, I can click to ”sell” -make it available- or transfer to a friend. A game I am trying to get rid of is still my responsibility though. So there are tough weeks when you might have to beg - or then the refsecs help.
that's an absolutelt fabulous idea though
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
When it all works it’s great. But of course doesn’t make more refs sign up after Covid! Also the autoassigning needs a personal touch to keep everyone happy. This is not an art I am familiar with!
The system is (I believe) a custom Torneopal https://www.torneopal.fi/ - as well as all the ref stuff, including billing, there’s all the digital team sheets, league and player stats etc. for the whole country. There are some very clever things: all our assessment PDFs are there, for higher tier games there is a kit approval process for the teams and officials. Remarkable in so many ways.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Oh yeah we have the calendar where you block out days - but you can even go deep and block out hours, which is great for shift workers.
(I would post screen shots but it might not be allowed. I can find our system training material online but it might not be public domain. If you want to research it is taso.palloliitto.fi - Taso (level) is the service name, Palloliitto is the Football Association here… 4000 matches a month just in the capital area or something… amazing really…)
(I would post screen shots but it might not be allowed. I can find our system training material online but it might not be public domain. If you want to research it is taso.palloliitto.fi - Taso (level) is the service name, Palloliitto is the Football Association here… 4000 matches a month just in the capital area or something… amazing really…)
I think you might be underestimating it though - good admin from leagues might not gain extra referees, but bad admin will definitely lose them for you. I don't have much choice now with the league I referenced earlier (that's my local step-above-grassroots league), but back when I was in Essex I absolutely chose not to re-enlist with a specific league because their admin was so poor and I regularly had to phone up the ref sec to remind him of dates I'd already closed on which I'd been appointed.
We have a system in England that would allow centralised referee administration, MOAS, but for whatever reason it has never been rolled out to grass roots levels. My understanding was that was always the plan, but just never happened.
Centralised referee appointments works in some CFAs, but it would be a nightmare in somewhere like London, Birmingham, Manchester, etc, there are just too many leagues and referees to do it centrally.
There are different ways of doing things all over the World. For example, in Norway referees are trained through football clubs rather than a regional FA and remain connected to that club for ever. When appointments are published they list the referee's name followed by their club in brackets, including when the NFF recently publicised their new Champion's League referee being appointed.
Centralised referee appointments works in some CFAs, but it would be a nightmare in somewhere like London, Birmingham, Manchester, etc, there are just too many leagues and referees to do it centrally.
There are different ways of doing things all over the World. For example, in Norway referees are trained through football clubs rather than a regional FA and remain connected to that club for ever. When appointments are published they list the referee's name followed by their club in brackets, including when the NFF recently publicised their new Champion's League referee being appointed.
How does it happen in norway for those referee not to be biased towards their home clubs? Just sounds like that wouldn't work here
They never referee their home clubs.
RefIADad
RefChat Addict
Yes. In the US, we now have five levels. The previous numerical grades we used are next to the new designation.
While I understand the reasoning behind the move, I do wish there was an "advanced grassroots" level. Because of my son's club playing schedule, I often travel out of state and will work matches when he's not playing (it definitely helps with the travel costs!!). Under the old system, "Grade 7" meant I had been assessed and was qualified to work pretty much any youth match in the country and many adult amateur matches. Now, I'm lumped in with all of the beginning referees as a grassroots referee. I'm in my mid-40s and have zero interest in getting my regional badge. Truth be told, I'd probably never get it even if I wanted to because US Soccer wants regionals who have the potential for bigger things (and I don't blame them a bit for that - I'd think the same thing if I were in their shoes). But when I do send out a mini-resume to these out of town assignors, I make it very clear I was a Grade 7 under the previous system so they know that I should be competent on their matches and I'm not just some first-year guy who just got certified. Of course, listing some of my adult and collegiate experience helps that as well.
- Grassroots (9-8-7)
- Regional (6-5)
- National (4-AR Track 3 - Referee track)
- Professional
- FIFA
While I understand the reasoning behind the move, I do wish there was an "advanced grassroots" level. Because of my son's club playing schedule, I often travel out of state and will work matches when he's not playing (it definitely helps with the travel costs!!). Under the old system, "Grade 7" meant I had been assessed and was qualified to work pretty much any youth match in the country and many adult amateur matches. Now, I'm lumped in with all of the beginning referees as a grassroots referee. I'm in my mid-40s and have zero interest in getting my regional badge. Truth be told, I'd probably never get it even if I wanted to because US Soccer wants regionals who have the potential for bigger things (and I don't blame them a bit for that - I'd think the same thing if I were in their shoes). But when I do send out a mini-resume to these out of town assignors, I make it very clear I was a Grade 7 under the previous system so they know that I should be competent on their matches and I'm not just some first-year guy who just got certified. Of course, listing some of my adult and collegiate experience helps that as well.
Fixed it for you.
In Scotland its
7>6>5>4Dev>4>3D>3 then splits to either 2 or SAR and 2 goes to 1
higdawgy
Member
In Australia, we have 4 levels.
They don't really do a great deal. Some referee associations care a lot about them, and some don't.
To referee at the elite level you have to be a Level 1.
A number of years ago they completely changed the online registration system when I wasn't refereeing as I was off around the world in the Navy. When I came back I had no qualifications in the system. I was required to complete a Level 4 course to ensure that I was up to date etc.
So according to the online system, I am "only" a Level 4 referee despite my level of games and experience in the old system.
They don't really do a great deal. Some referee associations care a lot about them, and some don't.
To referee at the elite level you have to be a Level 1.
A number of years ago they completely changed the online registration system when I wasn't refereeing as I was off around the world in the Navy. When I came back I had no qualifications in the system. I was required to complete a Level 4 course to ensure that I was up to date etc.
So according to the online system, I am "only" a Level 4 referee despite my level of games and experience in the old system.