A&H

Ref, is that not a yellow card?

Big Cat

Big Cat

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Level 4 Referee
Had a player say this tonight, having been brought down. He didn't yell it out to undermine me openly, but an opposition player heard it and protested. I know it's irrelevant, but the fouled player was right in his assessment and I'm disappointed that i didn't caution the opponent for RP. I was going to ask whether i should have cautioned the comment, but in writing this, the incident smacks of how one bad decision quickly leads to another
 
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Asking for a card is in itself cardable, however, if you pull out a card on command of a player you have truly had your pants pulled down... Its your decision and not his, he may be right but i certainly wouldn't caution after been 'instructed' to do so!! Give the fouler a belated one later if you've missed one for PI!!
 
Scenario 1 - Yellow Card for RP, correct decision, move on
Scenario 2 - No YC for RP, No YC for dissent/USB, both wrong decisions
Scenario 3 - No YC for RP, YC for dissent/USB. one wrong decision, one right decision

Scenario 2 is better in terms of game management, because they've effectively cancelled one another out. Scenario 3 could destabilize the game by a sense of injustice

I know that scenario 1 didn't happen, because previous games involving the perpetrator's team had been no bother and this affected my judgement. This encounter became fractious because I naively thought we were all great mates and i didn't whip the guns out when needed. This reffing business really is quite tricky...:(
 
Easy way that has worked for me so far is retorting with something like 'Which one of us is the referee here? Let me make the decisions please.'

If they argue back, easy dissent caution. Can then also caution the player from the other team without it looking like you were influenced.
 
Big Cat said:
Had a player say this tonight, having been brought down. He didn't yell it out to undermine me openly, but an opposition player heard it and protested. I know it's irrelevant, but the fouled player was right in his assessment and I'm disappointed that i didn't caution the opponent for RP. I was going to ask whether i should have cautioned the comment, but in writing this, the incident smacks of how one bad decision quickly leads to another
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Did he say it after it was obvious you wasn’t going to caution his opponent? Or did he say before you’d had a chance to deal with the challenge?

Unusual thing to say as an immediate reaction to a challenge, but not that uncommon once a ref has given the foul but taken no further action.
 
Big Cat said:
Had a player say this tonight, having been brought down. He didn't yell it out to undermine me openly, but an opposition player heard it and protested. I know it's irrelevant, but the fouled player was right in his assessment and I'm disappointed that i didn't caution the opponent for RP. I was going to ask whether i should have cautioned the comment, but in writing this, the incident smacks of how one bad decision quickly leads to another
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On it's own and isolated asking if a foul is yellow in a non aggressive way doesn't sound too bad and not worthy of a caution. A quick response with a smile "naaah" is what I do.
But be wary of those crafty players who constantly chip away at you in a non aggressive way. They are the hardest to manage for newer referees. No single one of them is worthy of a yellow but you must draw a line at some stage and take the card out.
 
one said:
On it's own and isolated asking if a foul is yellow in a non aggressive way doesn't sound too bad and not worthy of a caution. A quick response with a smile "naaah" is what I do.
But be wary of those crafty players who constantly chip away at you in a non aggressive way. They are the hardest to manage for newer referees. No single one of them is worthy of a yellow but you must draw a line at some stage and take the card out.
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Totally agree glad you raised it, I’d sooner have someone swear once or shout once that I can nip in the bud early with a threat of caution than the ones that drain you and chip away never quite crossing the line but pushing you all the time, fine example of that in my first few games & he got in my head, anytime I responded he just played the victim & said I’m only asking ref.

God i’d Like to re wind back to that game now, he’d of got a public dressing down early & yellow wouldn’t have been far behind it.
 
Padfoot said:
Did he say it after it was obvious you wasn’t going to caution his opponent? Or did he say before you’d had a chance to deal with the challenge?

Unusual thing to say as an immediate reaction to a challenge, but not that uncommon once a ref has given the foul but taken no further action.
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The latter i'd say. So this has been my first full season. Done 16 Open Age games and over 20 youth games (mostly U15s and U16s). Been a bit down trodden after last night's game got away from me a bit. I think I fret about club marks (even though mine are good) too much and spend too much energy trying to keep everyone happy; an impossible objective which inevitably leads to despair! My card count is really quite low too; either my tolerance of contact/fouls/dissent is too high, or my good nature is holding me back
 
Give a Warning first as most don’t see it as unsportsmanlike, to them it’s a pertinent question, maybe a valid one too! I suppose he’s asking a question in this instance and not telling you that it is and you are wrong!

It’s like the old referee joke where a player asks the referee if he can get a yellow card for thinking something??? To which the referee says ‘off course not!’

To which the player replies.... ‘Great, because I think you’re a £@@@er’.....:(
 
just say something like if you want to see a yellow card no problem, but i will be pointing it at you now go away
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Give a Warning first as most don’t see it as unsportsmanlike, to them it’s a pertinent question, maybe a valid one too! I suppose he’s asking a question in this instance and not telling you that it is and you are wrong!

It’s like the old referee joke where a player asks the referee if he can get a yellow card for thinking something??? To which the referee says ‘off course not!’

To which the player replies.... ‘Great, because I think you’re a £@@@er’.....:(
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This resonates with me, because I definitely remember saying that a couple of times when I was playing! As a central midfielder, you are usually quite close to the referee and I used to ask questions sometimes in that manner but in a genuine non aggressive way in a low polite tone and one to one basis i.e "ref, that was a pass back back there wasn't it?" Literally 99% of the time the referee was always courteous and said something like "No I didn't think it was because XYZ" and I'd say "OK, fair enough" and that would be it or at the bluntest a "no/nah".

Five or so years ago in the States one of our wide players was dribbling on the wing and was having his shirt pulled/held for a good while and the referee was in my immediate vicinity so I said "ref, is that not a free-kick he's got his shirt?" and I got an absolute earful "GET outtttaaaa here, don't speak to me etc". It was a nothing game and I was just "asking" and I honestly thought to myself "what a rude arrogant chap". And it's my personal opinion that if you go over the top on these instances or referee with that attitude you can quite easily become "oh look it's him (that ref) again" before the game which can set yourself up for a harder time if everyone/every team thinks you are a di*k!

As a referee I don't mind this sort of communication one bit if someone asks me a genuine polite question after the incident i.e at a goalkick, and someone near me says "ref wasn't that a penalty?" and I say "no it wasn't enough contact" and the reply back is either an acknowledgement or an "ah ok" but I wouldn't be such a a stress head and reply back in a rude or arrogant way because that's not my individual style.

It's obviously a fine line and I'm just airing my thoughts but understand the OP was about a specific incident regarding a yellow card. But I admit.....I have said "ref that's got to be a yellow" after a tackle and before any action to "encourage" the ref to book the player!
 
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