Red Card for rolling substitute

[APurpleChair]

In my match today, I showed a red card to a player who had just been subbed.
He had just walked off the opposite side of the pitch to the technical areas and was given a red card for OFFINABUS.

Question 1:
This player was essentially now a substitute and was off the pitch, but in a game using rolling subs.

Should I insist that the team now play with 10 men?
Or allow them to carry on with 11 because the player was technically now on the bench when he was sent off?

Question 2:
Was I right to stop the game to show the red card?
I awarded an inderect free kick, close to where the offence had occurred.

 

[Viridis1886]

Was he on the pitch when he was given the card?

If he hadn't been subbed at that point then they are down to 10. If the substitution had been completed then he can not be subbed again still 11 on the pitch.

This is why you still need to manage the substitutions even for rolling subs. One off one on.

 

[RustyRef]

In my match today, I showed a red card to a player who had just been subbed.
He had just walked off the opposite side of the pitch to the technical areas and was given a red card for OFFINABUS.

Question 1:
This player was essentially now a substitute and was off the pitch, but in a game using rolling subs.

Should I insist that the team now play with 10 men?
Or allow them to carry on with 11 because the player was technically now on the bench when he was sent off?

Question 2:
Was I right to stop the game to show the red card?
I awarded an inderect free kick, close to where the offence had occurred.

Rolling subs shouldn't really be used as a phrase as it can be misleading, it implies that changes can be made as play is ongoing, such as at small sided games. Rather we have repeated substitutions, which just means that players who have already been replaced can come back on, but only at a break in play and with the referee's permission.

Q1. If the player leaving was still on the pitch then the substitution procedure hadn't been completed, this means he should be sent off and cannot be replaced.

Q2. This is where I suspect you might be talking about small sided football here, as why would you have needed to stop play? A substitution can only take place when play is stopped.

 

[OldNavyRef]

Based on the IFAB language, you should be classing the moment the the oncoming player(s) run onto the pitch as when the sub is technically completed (again I get this isn't ideal, and the better answer should be to manage your subs correctly).

If you have restarted the match after the substitute has been completed and a player who is now on the bench (regardless of rolling subs) commits OFFINABUS you stop the game, dismiss the sub (This does not put the team down to 10 men) then restart with IDFK on the boundary line closest to where the offence occurred.

If you were still waiting for the sub to completed, the restart should have been the original restart before OFFINABUS occurred. The question should then be, was the new player on the pitch at the time OFFINABUS was committed. If the oncoming player wasn't on the pitch at the time of OFFINABUS, you should have put them down to 10 players.





IFAB. Law 12.4 (All three above)


IFAB. Law 3.3

 

[RefereeX]

Q2. This is where I suspect you might be talking about small sided football here, as why would you have needed to stop play? A substitution can only take place when play is stopped.

My interpretation of the uncertainty in the OP is that the sub had been completed and play had restarted with the sub still walking away down the touchline. I've been wrong many times before though.

 

[one]

Rolling subs shouldn't really be used as a phrase as it can be misleading, it implies that changes can be made as play is ongoing, such as at small sided games. Rather we have repeated substitutions, which just means that players who have already been replaced can come back on, but only at a break in play and with the referee's permission.

The correct term to use which is in line with the lotg term is 'return substitute'.

But agree, without knowing what the OP means by rolling sub, it's difficult to answer the questions.

It's also not clear where the offender was when he said/did whatever he said/did.

 

[santa sangria]

In my match today, I showed a red card to a player who had just been subbed.
He had just walked off the opposite side of the pitch to the technical areas and was given a red card for OFFINABUS.

Question 1:
This player was essentially now a substitute and was off the pitch, but in a game using rolling subs.

Should I insist that the team now play with 10 men?
Or allow them to carry on with 11 because the player was technically now on the bench when he was sent off?

Question 2:
Was I right to stop the game to show the red card?
I awarded an inderect free kick, close to where the offence had occurred.

Your question is unanswerable without knowing the league rules.

Where I am we have leagues with ball in play flying subs. Subs must be made at the benches. So, in the OP, on our league rules, it would be RC, down to 10 and YC if a sub player entered the FoP without (implied) permission as part of this.

And, yes, rarely but does happen - we have some last-weeks-refs allowing subs to go off wrong side, which confuses teams in future matches

 

[JamesL]

In my match today, I showed a red card to a player who had just been subbed.
He had just walked off the opposite side of the pitch to the technical areas and was given a red card for OFFINABUS.

Question 1:
This player was essentially now a substitute and was off the pitch, but in a game using rolling subs.

Should I insist that the team now play with 10 men?
Or allow them to carry on with 11 because the player was technically now on the bench when he was sent off?

Question 2:
Was I right to stop the game to show the red card?
I awarded an inderect free kick, close to where the offence had occurred.

The substitution procedure is complete once the player entering the field of play, does so. Any offences after that point don't affect the player numbers.

Restart was correct, law says from the boundary closest to wear the offence took place.

Question 2 so long as you didn't disadvantage the non-offending team in doing so - for verbal offences if you can wait until next stoppage then that's okay but I tend to go with if the offending team are in possession or there is a risk of escalation then I would consider stopping play.

 

[Refollie]

Question for LOTG lovers. What would you give if the player has left the FOP, and then commits OFFINABUS, but the incoming sub is still tying his laces/having his kit checked and is yet to enter the FOP himself?

 

[one]

Question for LOTG lovers. What would you give if the player has left the FOP, and then commits OFFINABUS, but the incoming sub is still tying his laces/having his kit checked and is yet to enter the FOP himself?

If this game is governed by lotg then substitution is not complete. Send off offending 'player'. Team plays with one less player.

 

[JamesL]

Question for LOTG lovers. What would you give if the player has left the FOP, and then commits OFFINABUS, but the incoming sub is still tying his laces/having his kit checked and is yet to enter the FOP himself?

LOTG answer is the substitute is not complete so the player (not the substituted player) has been sent off so for the substitute to now enter another player would need to become a substituted player.

 

[APurpleChair]

Thanks all for the replies.

Looks like I made a mistake in insisting the team go down to 10. Even with "return" substitutions active, a red card to a player off the pitch should not affect the player count.

Still learning every day...