A&H

Offside?

N416405

Waterman
Game on Saturday where I was on the line:

‘1-2’ on half-way line, No.9 lays it back and makes an early run for the return ball.

Clearly offside, everyone stops expecting a flag, which I don’t raise.

Attacker has also realised he’s offside and stops.

His team-mate runs from an on-side (his own half) position, collects ball, rounds keeper and scores.


The No.9 doesn’t touch the ball or get within playing distance (say 3m) or interfere with an opponent in any physical capacity.


The argument that he was ‘offside’, was that he was ‘running on to the ball’ and therefore everyone stopped expecting him to play the ball, indeed I was following play ready for that occurrence and to flag.
 
The Referee Store
A difficult one. Clearly it's one of those "you had to be there" scenarios.

If the defenders all stopped then I suppose that's their lookout but I'd have to see the impact the offside player had on their decision-making and also his proximity. You say 3m but that's less than 10 feet which ain't much - only 3 strides away from the ball ...
 
A difficult one. Clearly it's one of those "you had to be there" scenarios.

If the defenders all stopped then I suppose that's their lookout but I'd have to see the impact the offside player had on their decision-making and also his proximity. You say 3m but that's less than 10 feet which ain't much - only 3 strides away from the ball ...
No.9 'went' to play the ball (obviously from a '1-2'), so yes he was close, but then stopped, realising he was offside.
I've re-read LOTG and can't pin what happened down as an offence.
He didn't touch the ball or clearly attempt to play the ball (there was no attempt to play the ball, unless his 'running in the direction' is classed as an attempt).
 
A difficult one. Clearly it's one of those "you had to be there" scenarios.

If the defenders all stopped then I suppose that's their lookout but I'd have to see the impact the offside player had on their decision-making and also his proximity. You say 3m but that's less than 10 feet which ain't much - only 3 strides away from the ball ...
But that's not really a consideration kez he has to make an action that impacts an opponent, or attempt to play the ball which impacts. Being there is not enough to call offside.

To. Me this sounds like textbook onside, he hasn't committed any of the offside offences.
 
But that's not really a consideration kez he has to make an action that impacts an opponent, or attempt to play the ball which impacts. Being there is not enough to call offside.

To. Me this sounds like textbook onside, he hasn't committed any of the offside offences.
Yeah I get that mate. I'm possibly picturing it differently to how it actually happened. I still think that the impact an offside players run, bearing in mind his proximity to the ball and/or the defenders can be viewed as such though. On the basis of probability though it sounds like the decision not to flag was correct in law.

On another point - "kez?" No capital K and a "z" in place of the s? I'm reaching for the yellow as we speak ... ;) :D
 
No.9 'went' to play the ball (obviously from a '1-2'), so yes he was close, but then stopped, realising he was offside.
I've re-read LOTG and can't pin what happened down as an offence.
He didn't touch the ball or clearly attempt to play the ball (there was no attempt to play the ball, unless his 'running in the direction' is classed as an attempt).
Yeah, on reflection it sounds like you made the right call mate. Always difficult when the defenders react like that and then of course it's your fault ... :rolleyes::cool:
 
Game on Saturday where I was on the line:

‘1-2’ on half-way line, No.9 lays it back and makes an early run for the return ball.

Clearly offside, everyone stops expecting a flag, which I don’t raise.

Attacker has also realised he’s offside and stops.

His team-mate runs from an on-side (his own half) position, collects ball, rounds keeper and scores.


The No.9 doesn’t touch the ball or get within playing distance (say 3m) or interfere with an opponent in any physical capacity.


The argument that he was ‘offside’, was that he was ‘running on to the ball’ and therefore everyone stopped expecting him to play the ball, indeed I was following play ready for that occurrence and to flag.
I'm still waiting for a question.

Play on.. next.
 
Yeah I get that mate. I'm possibly picturing it differently to how it actually happened. I still think that the impact an offside players run, bearing in mind his proximity to the ball and/or the defenders can be viewed as such though. On the basis of probability though it sounds like the decision not to flag was correct in law.

On another point - "kez?" No capital K and a "z" in place of the s? I'm reaching for the yellow as we speak ... ;) :D
Yes. Much like when a defender heads it out because an attacker is beind him. It feels like interfering with opponent, probably is by all English sense of the word but in law it is not.

And apologies Kes. Used to autocorrect on my phone so didn't get picked up as a proper noun. Might help if spelt correctly. Caution accepted 😂
 
No.9 'went' to play the ball (obviously from a '1-2'), so yes he was close, but then stopped, realising he was offside.
I've re-read LOTG and can't pin what happened down as an offence.
He didn't touch the ball or clearly attempt to play the ball (there was no attempt to play the ball, unless his 'running in the direction' is classed as an attempt).
Somewhere, deep in the back of the book it says about two oppoenents moving towards the ball that the AR should hold the flag to see who does so. If the onside player gets it first then no offence is committed.

The defence has broken the golden rule of play to the whistle. You made a perfectly sound decision in law it would seem
 
If one player is going for the ball then the practical guidelines (diagram 4) allow an early flag for interfering with play before the ball is touched if his team-mates don't have an opportunity to play the ball.

For me you'd clearly play on if the onside position player was already making a run for the ball before the offside position player stopped, but if he just starts running because everyone has stopped it's you had to be there.
 
Ok I'll bite event though it should be a very clear not offside.

There this "clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent" but as usual the laws wording doesn't get fully explain it's intent.

'attempting' does not mean running towards the ball or intending to play it when they get there. It's an action like a swing of the leg towards the ball (but no contact)

'close' is within playing distance or missing the ball by inches.

'impacts' means opponent continues to defend but a different way because 'the action' warranted the new defending way. Deciding not to defend does not count as impact here.

and all three (for me, the way I explained it) must apply at the same time for it to be offside. That is attempting to play, close and impact. None of those were present in OP so for me it doesn't even come close to offside.
 
I have had this a number of times and it's one of the most common ways an an AR can throw the 3rd team under the bus. If you had flagged early and the flag has made both the offside player and the defenders stop then the official's team is dead and buried. As the referee if you see the onside player was already going for it you can't stop play. And it would be one of the most unfair goals you'd have to allow. Yes the defenders have to play to the whistle but a flag from one of the 'officials' is as good as a whistle for just about everyone.
 
That's showing a scenario where they are running towards the ball at a similar time. If B isn't running when A is and the ball was played wider then it would look fairly similar to diagram 4...
 
That's showing a scenario where they are running towards the ball at a similar time. If B isn't running when A is and the ball was played wider then it would look fairly similar to diagram 4...
Diagram 4 covers the situation where the player in an offside position is the only attacking team member going for the ball, which is not the case in the original post.
 
Diagram 4 covers the situation where the player in an offside position is the only attacking team member going for the ball, which is not the case in the original post.
From the description, I can’t tell if it is really diagram 3 or 4. Probably 3 (not OS), but you Really need to see it to be sure. If the onside player was running after the ball as part of the main play, clearly 3. But if if he only went after the ball after everyone had stopped, 4 might have been applicable. This is definitely one of those plays that used to be an easy OS call, and most players still expect it to be called, but likely was a good no call.
 
Simple answer - under the current wording of the law, he is not offside. Players won't understand, as they think back to a few years ago when it may have been offside.

At local football, look at the simplest option. Unless he actually plays the ball or touches a opponent, then nearly always it is not offside. Players have to realise they can't stop and wait for the flag/whistle now.
 
Yes the defenders have to play to the whistle but a flag from one of the 'officials' is as good as a whistle for just about everyone.

That's on the defenders. Nowhere in the magic book does it say that the flag stops play. I was the trail AR in a high school game in April when this play happened. AR puts the flag up, center sees the oncoming player who is onside and waits. Defense stops, offense scores. Parent in the bleachers on my side says, "When the AR puts his flag up, the play's dead." I looked at the offense's bench and said, "That guy has absolutely no idea what he's talking about", to the laughter of the bench.

The final decision rests with the referee. The assistants are there to assist. If a team doesn't understand that, it's their issue.
 
That's on the defenders. Nowhere in the magic book does it say that the flag stops play. I was the trail AR in a high school game in April when this play happened. AR puts the flag up, center sees the oncoming player who is onside and waits. Defense stops, offense scores. Parent in the bleachers on my side says, "When the AR puts his flag up, the play's dead." I looked at the offense's bench and said, "That guy has absolutely no idea what he's talking about", to the laughter of the bench.

The final decision rests with the referee. The assistants are there to assist. If a team doesn't understand that, it's their issue.

Yes, but . . . I think we also need to be sure that the referee team doesn't create something where nothing was there. If the onside player was going after the ball before the flag and players stopping, I agree. But if the flag and players stopping created the opportunity, I think the R should accept the flag as a diagram 4 scenario, even if the R thought the flag was premature.
 
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