The Ref Stop

My Reflections

J

Joshref

RefChat Addict
I referee for a junior team whenever I’m home from uni and had an U14 and U15 game today (on top of an absolutely mental U14 6-6 County Cup game last week.) Both games were expected to be home walkovers and second one the U15 game was an expected 9-2 win but the first game U14 one was a shock away 6-2 win.

I refereed both games well, I spoke to a former Vanarama National League ref after full time and he said last two weeks was best he’d ever seen me ref and it was excellent. Seeing as I probably penalise his grandson more than anyone I’ll take it! It was good to see him actually, I reffed his grandsons old team pre Covid and he’d given me constructive advice post match when I was first starting out so I have a lot of time for him. I hadn’t seen him after Covid started but I presume he was just isolating away.

But I like to reflect on games and I am annoyed at how I dealt with dissent and tbh I think it’s a weak area of my game that I’d like to improve. First game home team just moaned about everything. Nothing crossed my dissent line but it was just persistent and I wished I’d acted on it. Home team turned up to an easy game and rather than play their football seemed to turn up just trying to show they were tougher and got outplayed for it. My takeaway would’ve been to quash it earlier. Just more annoying than anything. Just an ill disciplined team. Moaning at me, making constant fouls, moaning at each other.

Second game away manager/CAR was the one moaning, coming out with “you know that was onside (PLAYER NAME), keep your head up” after I blew for an offside at 7-1 (was clearly off) and “We’re just not getting anything here.” I should’ve been concerned after 5 minutes when I talked to one of his players after he kicked the ball away from a free kick and he shouted “why do you need to talk to him there for?” and when I warned one of his players for holding in penalty box before a corner he shouted to his player “don’t worry player name you’re not doing anything wrong”

Tbf it was one of those games where the home team were getting majority of decisions but I have no allegiances for or against this team (I’d never reffed them before) I was just calling it as I saw it. And as the home team were on the attacking front it made sense they were getting it there way, away team weren’t even really doing anything to get decisions there way. I wish I’d had a word with him earlier on.

I think it’s because it doesn’t really bother me, it amuses me if anything, but I know I should still act on it. I went over to collect my flag from away CAR/manager after match and just said “well played unlucky cheers for that.” I got no words in response and certainly no handshake 😂. I was collecting my £55 for the two games from the kitchen post match and he was behind me in the queue but didn’t say anything but he didn’t look too happy to see me with the money after he obviously disagreed with the performance

I’m open for advice on this from the forum just wanted to reflect hence why I posted it on here. I’m aware it’s a weaker part of my game and something I need to work on. I’ve been really impressed with the rest of my game at the minute though and I’m happy with how I’m developing just need to deal with the verbal side better.
 
The Ref Stop
I was finding that until a few games ago, I hadn't actually utilised the Sin Bin at all. It was less a matter of setting my dissent bar too high, as assessors/match day coaches commented that my tolerance levels were high, but not necessarily negative as a result.

I realised I had been trying to use the sin bin too reactively instead of proactively.

I came off 2 games today, an Open Age and a U18 (2 and 7 cautions respectively - second one was a right scrappy game), but 3 of those were sinbins. Only one of those 3 crossed my line, the other two were for persistent minor dissent, and pushing onto my tolerance levels, and it became easier to cool one player down for 10mins before he boiled over and lost his head, either towards me, or the opposition.

Sort of trying to come off that saying that maybe just try and look at whether you're using SinBins pro or reactively (I'm sure more experienced refs may disagree with my logic, but I'm speaking from my experience).

Well done on the positive comments :)
 
Joshref said:
I referee for a junior team whenever I’m home from uni and had an U14 and U15 game today (on top of an absolutely mental U14 6-6 County Cup game last week.) Both games were expected to be home walkovers and second one the U15 game was an expected 9-2 win but the first game U14 one was a shock away 6-2 win.

I refereed both games well, I spoke to a former Vanarama National League ref after full time and he said last two weeks was best he’d ever seen me ref and it was excellent. Seeing as I probably penalise his grandson more than anyone I’ll take it! It was good to see him actually, I reffed his grandsons old team pre Covid and he’d given me constructive advice post match when I was first starting out so I have a lot of time for him. I hadn’t seen him after Covid started but I presume he was just isolating away.

But I like to reflect on games and I am annoyed at how I dealt with dissent and tbh I think it’s a weak area of my game that I’d like to improve. First game home team just moaned about everything. Nothing crossed my dissent line but it was just persistent and I wished I’d acted on it. Home team turned up to an easy game and rather than play their football seemed to turn up just trying to show they were tougher and got outplayed for it. My takeaway would’ve been to quash it earlier. Just more annoying than anything. Just an ill disciplined team. Moaning at me, making constant fouls, moaning at each other.

Second game away manager/CAR was the one moaning, coming out with “you know that was onside (PLAYER NAME), keep your head up” after I blew for an offside at 7-1 (was clearly off) and “We’re just not getting anything here.” I should’ve been concerned after 5 minutes when I talked to one of his players after he kicked the ball away from a free kick and he shouted “why do you need to talk to him there for?” and when I warned one of his players for holding in penalty box before a corner he shouted to his player “don’t worry player name you’re not doing anything wrong”

Tbf it was one of those games where the home team were getting majority of decisions but I have no allegiances for or against this team (I’d never reffed them before) I was just calling it as I saw it. And as the home team were on the attacking front it made sense they were getting it there way, away team weren’t even really doing anything to get decisions there way. I wish I’d had a word with him earlier on.

I think it’s because it doesn’t really bother me, it amuses me if anything, but I know I should still act on it. I went over to collect my flag from away CAR/manager after match and just said “well played unlucky cheers for that.” I got no words in response and certainly no handshake 😂. I was collecting my £55 for the two games from the kitchen post match and he was behind me in the queue but didn’t say anything but he didn’t look too happy to see me with the money after he obviously disagreed with the performance

I’m open for advice on this from the forum just wanted to reflect hence why I posted it on here. I’m aware it’s a weaker part of my game and something I need to work on. I’ve been really impressed with the rest of my game at the minute though and I’m happy with how I’m developing just need to deal with the verbal side better.
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If you get comments like that from a coach/CAR, act early. Tell them their comments are not acceptable, so the choice is to stop shouting or you will deal with it through the disciplinary route.
If they persist, remove them from the CAR role, and then any further action may include sending them away (subject to safeguarding remaining in place) if necessary.
If you let it go early on, it gets to the young players and makes your life more difficult.
Well done on reflecting on here.
 
With experience will come the self-confidence to be able to talk to managers when they're making these snide little comments. Not even necessarily a formal "talking to", but making a quick comment back at them when they're whinging - either (if they're a good egg) they'll re-evaluate their behaviour and wind their neck in, or (if they're a bad egg) they'll continue to make snide comments, or may even start trying to argue with you for having the temerity to say anything to them... by having a quiet word you've already started the stepped approach, and you can easily move on to a formal warning (or more, if necessary).
 
Recognising and acting on low level dissent.

There should be a chapter in the LotG about it.

When you get a crafty team where 5-6 players plus maybe a manager are all at it, probing with verbals, in a hectic game, it’s very hard to know when to act.

The OP has cleverly highlighted some: a coach that tries to undermine your authority even when you are helping his player - this shows the coach is only thinking about you and needs a warning; the player that protests the same minor decision repeatedly on the run several decisions later; and the player commenting loud enough to be heard sarcastically question decisions.

At least I will be looking out for these next time;)
 
I've always been way harder on comments from the side lines than from players. Letting managers and coaches constantly moan at you just encourages the players, cut it out at source and it will often silence the players. Probably did my club marks no good, but I'm not having someone vociferously challenging every single decision.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I’ll respond to some of it.

- Chas and Rusty both made the best point for me. As I said, the managers didn’t really bother me more amuse me it, but by not acting on it, it just creates problems, and I think it did in the U15 game. The comments, in particular the “we’re just not getting anything here” just create a victim mentality for the players, and I’ve seen it before, as player, coach, referee, where players who don’t think their getting anything from the ref in junior football get a victim mentality and then start lashing out, giving away more challenges and increasing the mentality. I know which comment Od have intervened at now, and that may have just calmed things down.
- Groves probably sums it up well for dealing with players, to act proactively to dissent rather than reactively.

I’m not back down until Christmas (although I am more and more tempted to do refereeing whilst I’m up at uni, I didn’t first year but I might do now, I’m just so busy when I’m up here but I do miss it) but I’ll definitely take the advice in to the next game
 
Joshref said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I’ll respond to some of it.

- Chas and Rusty both made the best point for me. As I said, the managers didn’t really bother me more amuse me it, but by not acting on it, it just creates problems, and I think it did in the U15 game. The comments, in particular the “we’re just not getting anything here” just create a victim mentality for the players, and I’ve seen it before, as player, coach, referee, where players who don’t think their getting anything from the ref in junior football get a victim mentality and then start lashing out, giving away more challenges and increasing the mentality. I know which comment Od have intervened at now, and that may have just calmed things down.
- Groves probably sums it up well for dealing with players, to act proactively to dissent rather than reactively.

I’m not back down until Christmas (although I am more and more tempted to do refereeing whilst I’m up at uni, I didn’t first year but I might do now, I’m just so busy when I’m up here but I do miss it) but I’ll definitely take the advice in to the next game
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To use a couple of real-life examples at different end of the scales ...

I refereed a during the season friendly between two step 5 teams. The away team manager was on at me all of the first half, and I was also having problems with his players. The changing rooms are behind one of the goals and there is quite a long walk, he followed me back in really having a go at me. I told him that if he said even one more word he was not coming back out for the second half, he carried on so I told him he was sent off (before the days of red cards for managers). At kick off for the second half his captain said "hold on ref, the managers not back out yet", to which I replied "no, he won't be, I've sent him off". I didn't get a peep from the players in the second half.

The other one was a Sunday League game where one manager really had a reputation, I'd already sent him off that season and all the referees moan about him. He was on at me from the first minute, as were the players, so I went to remind him what happened last time and it would happen again if he didn't reign his behaviour in. Midway through the first half he exploded over a throw in that he thought I'd got wrong, so I told him to go back to the changing rooms (Hackney Marshes so a long way 😂). He used the "its a public park, you can't make me" line, so I just said fine, we aren't restarting with you still here. He then went behind one of the corner flags, so I still held the ball and pointed to the distant changing rooms, and he eventually trotted off. Player behaviour was instantly better, the captain actually thanked me after the game as he moaned at them more than he did at me, they were losing when he went and ended up winning.

If you ignore constant moaning from managers and coaches it will spread to the players.
 
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