Luton v Wolves

[JBeil]

Can anyone point us towards the 'guidance' Danny Murphy is wittering on about in regards to the penalty decision in this match? If your arm is extended straight above your head, I think that qualifies for 'touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger.'

 

[RustyRef]

There is no guidance. In previous seasons the law said that if the ball deflected onto your body it wouldn't be handball, but that was removed so doesn't apply here. He had his arm straight up in the air and the ball hit it, bad luck but that is a clear handling offence.

 

[Paul_10]

It does feel unfortunate because of the deflection but the arms were up high and it would be very hard for a VAR to get involved with that.

It's one where it's supportable by law but managers/pundits/fans understandably are not happy with it because of the deflection.

 

[one]

There is no guidance. In previous seasons the law said that if the ball deflected onto your body it wouldn't be handball, but that was removed so doesn't apply here. He had his arm straight up in the air and the ball hit it, bad luck but that is a clear handling offence.

The 'prescriptive' bits that were removed did nothing but create unnecessary confusion for years to come.

 

[bloovee]

It does feel unfortunate because of the deflection but the arms were up high and it would be very hard for a VAR to get involved with that.

It's one where it's supportable by law but managers/pundits/fans understandably are not happy with it because of the deflection.

And he had his arms in a position where the ball would be least likely to hit them but for the deflection. A PK is simply a disproportionate penalty for what is NOT deliberate handling whatever the laws say, especially when the ball is deflected up rather than toward goal.

 

[RustyRef]

And he had his arms in a position where the ball would be least likely to hit them but for the deflection. A PK is simply a disproportionate penalty for what is NOT deliberate handling whatever the laws say.

These days players know that if you have your arms out from your body you will be in trouble. Why on earth would he have his arm straight up in the air like that, there's no normal football action in there at all?

 

[bloovee]

These days players know that if you have your arms out from your body you will be in trouble. Why on earth would he have his arm straight up in the air like that, there's no normal football action in there at all?

Why? Balance? I'm sure he didn't do it expecting the ball to be deflected up from his leg. If he even thought about it, maybe he thought it was less risky ("deliberate") than having his arms extended sideways.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Under current law, don’t see how anything other than a penalty can be given. Had this been in Europe, no one would have even batted an eyelid.

Goes back to a thread earlier this week; the media like to create controversy, thus creating cash

 

[Pembroke]

Why? Balance? I'm sure he didn't do it expecting the ball to be deflected up from his leg. If he even thought about it, maybe he thought it was less risky ("deliberate") than having his arms extended sideways.

Balance exactly. When you make that movement a player will use an arm as a counterbalance. Classic Bobby Moore to anybody.

No penalty here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705595485526921244

 

[bloovee]

Under current law, don’t see how anything other than a penalty can be given. Had this been in Europe, no one would have even batted an eyelid.

Goes back to a thread earlier this week; the media like to create controversy, thus creating cash

The laws get changed because of media / paying public controversy.

It's daft rules that create controversy. Who actually asked for the "guidance" to be removed?

We all know what will happen. A World Cup will be decided on something like this and the law will be changed again.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Balance exactly. When you make that movement a player will use an arm as a counterbalance. Classic Bobby Moore to anybody.

No penalty here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705595485526921244

On the video clip, I’m not really sure what you’re trying to show. His left arm is in an expected location, and if it hits his right arm, it’s at the very top of it

Completely different situation to the Luton one

 

[Runner-Ref]

The laws get changed because of media / paying public controversy.

It's daft rules that create controversy. Who actually asked for the "guidance" to be removed?

We all know what will happen. A World Cup will be decided on something like this and the law will be changed again.

So if the laws were up to you; what would you say is handball?

I actually think handball is probably clearer right now than it has been in a long time

 

[Pembroke]

On the video clip, I’m not really sure what you’re trying to show. His left arm is in an expected location, and if it hits his right arm, it’s at the very top of it

Completely different situation to the Luton one

The ball hit the forearm. The players arms are in expected position? As was the Wolves player. The Wolves player was was using his arms to balance, this is a normal and expected position.

 

[Runner-Ref]

The ball hit the forearm. The players arms are in expected position? As was the Wolves player. The Wolves player was was using his arms to balance, this is a normal and expected position.

He’s lying on the ground, this would fully be expected location that his arms would be as well.

I don’t buy that expected location is to have your arm above your head. At a 3 o’clock position I could just about buy, but not a chance having it directly above your head

 

[Pembroke]

He’s lying on the ground, this would fully be expected location that his arms would be as well.

I don’t buy that expected location is to have your arm above your head. At a 3 o’clock position I could just about buy, but not a chance having it directly above your head

When an individual reaches for a the ball in that manner their opposite arm to the leg that are challenging with will swing out to act as balance.
From the greatest to parks football, the bio mechanics are the same.

 

[JamesL]

Not in laws but the rules say:

 

[bloovee]

So if the laws were up to you; what would you say is handball?

I actually think handball is probably clearer right now than it has been in a long time

Clear doesn't mean sensible.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Clear doesn't mean sensible.

I would be interested to learn your version of what the handball law should say - which is what @Runner-Ref asked you - and I am sure others would like to see it as well.

 

[bloovee]

IFAB:
As the interpretation of handball incidents has not always been consistent due to incorrect applications of the Law, the members confirmed that not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

I would be interested to learn your version of what the handball law should say - which is what @Runner-Ref asked you - and I am sure others would like to see it as well.

Deliberate handball is the offence.

IFAB has tried to define deliberate to include actions which are not deliberate.

It's no wonder there's controversy.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

IFAB:
As the interpretation of handball incidents has not always been consistent due to incorrect applications of the Law, the members confirmed that not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.



Deliberate handball is the offence.

IFAB has tried to define deliberate to include actions which are not deliberate.

It's no wonder there's controversy.

OK - so share with us how the law should be written . . .