A&H

Lesson learned!

OnlyUseMeWhistle

OnlyUseMeWhistle

RefChat Addict
Level 4W Referee
Reffed a women's game yesterday, finished 7-0 to the away team.

Both development teams with most players being 17 on each side, I reffed one team a fair bit when they were U16 last year.

I was quite relaxed on foul throws, unless they were really egregious (netball pass or throwing at the floor), because I think in my head I had them as U16 kids still.

Anyway, both teams as bad as each other and I ended up giving about 10 in total and letting 20 less bad ones go.

All fine until in the final minute, one of the less offensive throws (imo I think the PL refs let it go) leads to a handball and penalty by the home team. Away team scores to make it 7.

Home manager comes on after and is raging that I gave a penalty from a foul through in the lead up.

Fair enough tbh, next game I do in this league (this Sunday) I'll be blowing for every single one!
 
The Referee Store
In my U13s game on Saturday I gave the first one to the other team (no retakes) and there wasn't any arguing.
 
FirsFox40 said:
I am absolutely not having a go, but this doesn't seem the first time you've said this recently.

How's your mindset going into a match, right from the kick-off? Go get 'em.
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Definitely appreciate the spot.

I think in a lot of games I am fine, especially adult games. But in some, especially with younger players, I am too soft. Especially because the players and coaches don't expect any cards at that level. I think I prioritise "managing" the game and know flashing cards and slowing the game down frustrates.

I get better with time, had a good season for it so far, but lapsed on Sunday.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Definitely appreciate the spot.

I think in a lot of games I am fine, especially adult games. But in some, especially with younger players, I am too soft. Especially because the players and coaches don't expect any cards at that level. I think I prioritise "managing" the game and know flashing cards and slowing the game down frustrates.

I get better with time, had a good season for it so far, but lapsed on Sunday.
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This is a(nother) reason why this forum is great, we can spot things in others and mention it without being aggressive or defensive depending which side of the fence you are.

I mentioned it, because after re-reading it and doing some self-evaluation about a couple of my more recent fixtures, I recognised a similar… pattern (?). 👍🏻
 
FirsFox40 said:
I mentioned it, because after re-reading it and doing some self-evaluation about a couple of my more recent fixtures, I recognised a similar… pattern (?). 👍🏻
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Appreciate it <3 this forum has been so so helpful, going into my third season and only actually now seeing development opportunities from my CFA because I am a promotion candidate. Learnt so much from here :D
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Appreciate it <3 this forum has been so so helpful, going into my third season and only actually now seeing development opportunities from my CFA because I am a promotion candidate. Learnt so much from here :D
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Totally agree with that. I've only been in the middle for a year, having coached for five and acted as parent/coach ref for three years. Only done two adult games thus far (both friendlies) and focus largely on youth football a) because I coach at those age groups and my son plays and b) at 49, have no pretensions at progressing up the ranks, though I do want to be the best referee I can be.

This resource is brilliant - very helpful and respectful.
 
I stepped in late to cover an U14 Girls game on Saturday. I was their first "proper" ref of the season.

Foul through from home team. Wrong in so many ways. I whistled and the coach asked if they could retake. "No, I reckon at this age they should be getting it right" so turned it over.

There was only one other foul throw in the rest of the game. The original player, although not perfect, improved significantly in her throws during the game.

Sometimes I think we do a disservice by letting them slide, when we could be stricter. That said, in the afternoon I sin binned 2 adults when they wanted to argue over a foul throw!
 
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Viridis1886 said:
I stepped in late to cover an U14 Girls game on Saturday. I was their first "proper" ref of the season.

Foul through from home team. Wrong in so many ways. I whistled and the coach asked if they could retake. "No, I reckon at this age they should be getting it right" so turned it over.

There was only one other foul through in the rest of the game. The original player, although not perfect, improved significantly in her throws during the game.

Sometimes I think we do a disservice by letting them slide, when we could be stricter. That said, in the afternoon I sin binned 2 adults when they wanted to argue over a foul throw!
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I've always viewed it that once they're U12s (ie competitive and published results) if they can't get it right it's going the other way.

More generally, I've always found it's a fine balance at U11s and below where there's little if any expectation of cards and as long as you've got good coaches with the right attitude (the majority but not all!) discipline is best managed rather than sanctioned.

You're way more experienced than me but imho the size and attitude difference once they reach U12s dictates more strictness/firmer management and once they hit 11v11 I believe the "disservice" line is even more relevant, and certainly round our way (where generally we're lucky with coaches' and parents' attitudes) I'm noticing a thankfulness for firmer and proactive officiating - a dad of the U13 I cautioned on Sunday actually thanked me after the match and not sarcastically either!
 
The Gump said:
I've always viewed it that once they're U12s (ie competitive and published results) if they can't get it right it's going the other way.

More generally, I've always found it's a fine balance at U11s and below where there's little if any expectation of cards and as long as you've got good coaches with the right attitude (the majority but not all!) discipline is best managed rather than sanctioned.

You're way more experienced than me but imho the size and attitude difference once they reach U12s dictates more strictness/firmer management and once they hit 11v11 I believe the "disservice" line is even more relevant, and certainly round our way (where generally we're lucky with coaches' and parents' attitudes) I'm noticing a thankfulness for firmer and proactive officiating - a dad of the U13 I cautioned on Sunday actually thanked me after the match and not sarcastically either!
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When I do U11s I let the player have one retake.
With U12s I let the team have one retake (and I am vocal that once they have had it there are now no retakes).
U13s onwards it's a straight turnover.

Seems to have worked well so far.
 
DazN said:
When I do U11s I let the player have one retake.
With U12s I let the team have one retake (and I am vocal that once they have had it there are now no retakes).
U13s onwards it's a straight turnover.

Seems to have worked well so far.
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Yep - pretty much where I am.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Reffed a women's game yesterday, finished 7-0 to the away team.

Both development teams with most players being 17 on each side, I reffed one team a fair bit when they were U16 last year.

I was quite relaxed on foul throws, unless they were really egregious (netball pass or throwing at the floor), because I think in my head I had them as U16 kids still.

Anyway, both teams as bad as each other and I ended up giving about 10 in total and letting 20 less bad ones go.

All fine until in the final minute, one of the less offensive throws (imo I think the PL refs let it go) leads to a handball and penalty by the home team. Away team scores to make it 7.

Home manager comes on after and is raging that I gave a penalty from a foul through in the lead up.

Fair enough tbh, next game I do in this league (this Sunday) I'll be blowing for every single one!
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I disagree with your lesson. Foul throws are technical and trifling offences. I would only call one where it was egregious (as you did) and I can't really remember the last time I called a foul throw.

That being said, a coach entering the field of play to remonstrate with you is a sending off offence. Did you take action against him?
 
RyantheRef said:
I disagree with your lesson. Foul throws are technical and trifling offences. I would only call one where it was egregious (as you did) and I can't really remember the last time I called a foul throw.

That being said, a coach entering the field of play to remonstrate with you is a sending off offence. Did you take action against him?
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I agree they're no big deal but they're also 1. easy to teach players not to do (which I could've done by blowing for them all in the first 5) and 2. if they do lead to a goal then you risk issues like the one I had.

It was full time and was as he came to shake my hand so no need for action to be honest, he wasn't abusive and did it privately away from players.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
It was full time and was as he came to shake my hand so no need for action to be honest, he wasn't abusive and did it privately away from players.
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The LotG specifically deal with this. They say that it is a sending off offence, even once the match has concluded. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your first post, which indicated that the manager was "fuming." To me that's an easy sending off.

In any case, it's unlikely that the so-called foul throw was not the cause of the goal, and you could teach players not to throw the ball in a foul way, but I don't really know why you would. I think you made the correct decision in the game, and would advise you to continue to apply the laws in this way.
 
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