A&H

Iceland vs Finland, 5th goal - When does goalie have control?

S

Simon Haydon

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Level 6 Referee
A colleague advised me to check out the winning goal for Iceland in the 95th minute against Finland at the weekend. In turn that encouraged me to check the latest laws on IFAB. And I'm really still not clear when a goalkeeper has contorl of the ball. In the game in Iceland, the Finland goalkpeer has one hand on the ball on the goalline with the ball on the line. (The ball may already have crossed the line moments earlier). An Iceland atacker pokes the ball into the goal and a goal is awarded. The IFAB advice below appears at first to be clear, saying the goalkeeper is in control of the ball when the ball is between his hand and the ground - all clear so far - but it then goes to add "except if the goalkeeper has made a save." What's that got to do with anything? What the Law appears to say here is "The goalkeeper is in control of the ball unless the goalkeeper has made a save." Help!!

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:
  • the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
 
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Good question Simon.

On Sunday GK slid out as attacker closed, both to me seemed to reach ball at the same time. The ball ended up away from the GK, who started shouting, "I had both hands on the ball ref" IF he did it, was only for a split second - that can't be "in control of the ball" surely?
 
Can't comment on the Iceland;Finland game, but I can clear up the Laws about control. The passage you quote refers to two separate situations, the bit about making a save only applies to the second:

"The goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:

1 the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body)

OR

2 by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save."

The first part is clear and simple (did not see the match you refer to, so can't judge if officials made a mistake there). Part two means that if the keeper touches the ball with their arms, they have had control (and released it) UNLESS it was an accidental deflection or a save. This refers to what was once called a "parry" where the keeper knocks the ball down with their hands. Unless this was from a shot going into the goal (and therefore a save) they have controlled the ball and released it (and therefore cannot now pick it up). Not given as often as it should be.
 
This incident is, on one hand, big news here (in Finland) because the locals are gutted.
On the other hand, my adopted brethren are also a nation of pessimists and most are just shrugging their shoulders: "we knew we'd lose eventually" (in the last minute, from a terrible call!).

Goal should have been chalked off. Should have been an IDFK. Awful decision in a major game.
 
santa sangria said:
This incident is, on one hand, big news here (in Finland) because the locals are gutted.
On the other hand, my adopted brethren are also a nation of pessimists and most are just shrugging their shoulders: "we knew we'd lose eventually" (in the last minute, from a terrible call!).

Goal should have been chalked off. Should have been an IDFK. Awful decision in a major game.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Based on the LOTG the GK was clearly in control of the ball .. really poor decision and not surprised the Finns are upset
 
The question still holds... was it actually fully over the goal line by the time the GK got possession/control? If so, then the control/possession talk is irrelevant.

For me, the angles of view still don't answer that one way or the other.
 
Well that Twit is totally conclusive for me. The ball definitely crossed the line fully before the keeper took posession. If the AR was on the goal line it would have been easy to see. Surprised if the AR did not flag but they could have talked on the intercom.

Good goal for me (boo hiss)
 
Based on that video, there is no way of even being close to confident that the ball fully crossed the line before the keeper had it under control. In fact, he pushes it straight down onto the line, so I'd be tempted to say I'm confident that the ball did not cross the line. But that would be a silly thing to say, as that video is a bad angle to be giving a goal-line decision from!
 
It's an interesting quandary. From the available video, I'd say no goal, either from the initial shot, or the follow up.
In the first instance, I couldn't say conclusively that the ball crossed the line and if the 5th official didn't give it, neither would/could I.
After the keeper clearly has a hand on the ball, I would consider this under his control.
 
Don't know if we are looking at the same video.
I have been looking at the Twitter vid and at stills around
Screen%20Shot%202016-10-28%20at%2020.53.55.png
:
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/mcdeli/Screen Shot 2016-10-28 at 20.53.55.png

Looks pretty clear to me...
 
santa sangria said:
Don't know if we are looking at the same video.
I have been looking at the Twitter vid and at stills around :


Looks pretty clear to me...
Click to expand...

Impossible to tell from that angle. There could be a tiny fraction of the ball still crossing the line.
 
Lasherlogi said:
In past scenarios they have said it is impossible for the ball to have crossed the line when viewed from this kind of angle.
Click to expand...
The quote from that article is about a different game, a different ball location, but a similar angle. If you look at the images shown in that article, the ball is on the ground in each of them. The ones in this thread? It's in the air, making it a much tougher determination.

This is the danger in taking a quote and generalizing it, when it's specific to a particular instance.

Is it nigh-on impossible to tell (from the angle we have) if the ball is over the line? Yes.
Is it possible that it's over the line? Yes.
 
Bear in mind that when in the air the angle is misleading - it looks further back than it is. The keeper got a hand on it, the ball went almost directly down. So even if it was behind I don't think it was nearly as far back as it looks here.

AR would have had his view blocked. So impossible to spot this without goal line tech.
 
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