Junior/Youth Homophobic Comment

[Matthew]

First for me in 14 years of refereeing yesterday. Had to dismiss a youth player for a homophobic comment to an opposition player; I would say I’m surprised, but nothing surprises me with the state of player behaviour at the moment.

I won’t go into too much detail on what was said, but I just wanted to check how to report. Does this need an extraordinary report in addition to the usual red card report? I assume it’s also likely to go to a personal hearing as it could attract a longer ban than usual?

 

[Anubis]

First for me in 14 years of refereeing yesterday. Had to dismiss a youth player for a homophobic comment to an opposition player; I would say I’m surprised, but nothing surprises me with the state of player behaviour at the moment.

I won’t go into too much detail on what was said, but I just wanted to check how to report. Does this need an extraordinary report in addition to the usual red card report? I assume it’s also likely to go to a personal hearing as it could attract a longer ban than usual?

Might be different by country but usually if you are reporting extraordinary, you let that be known to the team yesterday.

When the fuss has all died down post match, inform the responsible party ( coach, sec, whoever) that " just for info you teams sending off gets reported as exceptional misconduct"

its not something we decide to do the day after the game, its for us to know when still offcially on game duty.

 

[ARF]

Might be different by country but usually if you are reporting extraordinary, you let that be known to the team yesterday.

When the fuss has all died down post match, inform the responsible party ( coach, sec, whoever) that " just for info you teams sending off gets reported as exceptional misconduct"

its not something we decide to do the day after the game, its for us to know when still offcially on game duty.

If the homophobic language was used after already having been dismissed then yes, you should inform the club that there will be an additional report. However if the comment is the offence for which the player has been dismissed, I can't see any reason why you should need to do anything further on the day.

Does this need an extraordinary report in addition to the usual red card report? I assume it’s also likely to go to a personal hearing as it could attract a longer ban than usual?

Yes it does. And yes, once the player realises that they could be looking at least 6 matches instead of just 2, there is a very good chance that they will deny saying what they've said, or will look for some way to get out of it.

 

[JamesL]

If you dismissed for offinabus this needs, not an additional report but an accompanying report to describe the language used as it falls under aggravated offence due to the nature of the language used.
The way to do this is by using the extraordinary report hut advise it is accompanying the report for the sending off offence bt x player for x offence

 

[santa sangria]

First for me in 14 years of refereeing yesterday. Had to dismiss a youth player for a homophobic comment to an opposition player; I would say I’m surprised, but nothing surprises me with the state of player behaviour at the moment.

I won’t go into too much detail on what was said, but I just wanted to check how to report. Does this need an extraordinary report in addition to the usual red card report? I assume it’s also likely to go to a personal hearing as it could attract a longer ban than usual?

Well done Matthew. Respect.

 

[GraemeS]

Don't let Anubis make you hesitate in doing the right thing. Yes, ideally let the team know the report is coming, but there are loads of valid reasons you might not be able (or might not feel safe) letting them know.

Doesn't remotely change the fact that the report should still go in.

 

[Matthew]

Thanks all, very much appreciated. Report submitted.

On the point re informing the team, I’m not sure that I agree that it’s necessary. The coach was made aware of what the red card was for when I confirmed the details of the player, and it doesn’t take a genius to work out that it may attract more than a standard ban.

 

[Anubis]

Thanks all, very much appreciated. Report submitted.

On the point re informing the team, I’m not sure that I agree that it’s necessary. The coach was made aware of what the red card was for when I confirmed the details of the player, and it doesn’t take a genius to work out that it may attract more than a standard ban.

its no different from say, playing without goal nets/corner flags


" guys, just so you know, the league will be informed xxxxx"


its basic communication.

We dont decide what level of report to submit 24 hours after the game, this is to be dealt with, when present at the game. Assume nothing, not communicating the intent to the team can ( and after ten years exp on a league board i can tell you it does) result in say a report being thrown out.
Necessary? up for debate
Best practise? not up for debate, one more potential loophole closed, ( along with say, submission in orderly time )

 

[GraemeS]

its no different from say, playing without goal nets/corner flags


" guys, just so you know, the league will be informed xxxxx"


its basic communication.

We dont decide what level of report to submit 24 hours after the game, this is to be dealt with, when present at the game. Assume nothing, not communicating the intent to the team can ( and after ten years exp on a league board i can tell you it does) result in say a report being thrown out.
Necessary? up for debate
Best practise? not up for debate, one more potential loophole closed, ( along with say, submission in orderly time )

You don't consider homophobic abuse might be a more difficult and emotive subject than a £10 fine for no corner flags? Might want to rethink your phrasing here.

 

[ASM]

@GraemeS @Anubis
Enough. You have both been warned.

 

[JamesL]

its no different from say, playing without goal nets/corner flags


" guys, just so you know, the league will be informed xxxxx"


its basic communication.

We dont decide what level of report to submit 24 hours after the game, this is to be dealt with, when present at the game. Assume nothing, not communicating the intent to the team can ( and after ten years exp on a league board i can tell you it does) result in say a report being thrown out.
Necessary? up for debate
Best practise? not up for debate, one more potential loophole closed, ( along with say, submission in orderly time )

Think you have missed the point here. The player was shown a red card. The team were advised what for. This isn't a sneaky after thought report. Due process has been followed.

History might help and also any differences in reporting procedure.

Historically up until 3 or 4 seasons ago we had to write up a report for every red card. Example: "in 25th minute so and so committed an excessive force challenge/ punched his opponent/ said x, y, z"

This requirement has now been removed and simply report the Send off code.

Referees are required, where the offence is aggravated, to send in an accompanying report to advise the words used. You do not need to say and by the way I am telling them what you said.

The referee here is doing the right thing. They have shown the red card. They have told the club why it was shown. He is just checking on what is proper for a report.

I agree, if you are doing extra misconduct, where the cards were not used to communicate, you must tell the club involved, no surprises. But the card has been shown the club are expecting the county FA to be in touch.

 

[GraemeS]

I agree, if you are doing extra misconduct, where the cards were not used to communicate, you must tell the club involved, no surprises. But the card has been shown the club are expecting the county FA to be in touch.

Honestly I think even this is a courtesy rather than a necessity.

I particularly recall one game where an AR insisted on escorting me to my car after a particularly belligerent player manager got sent off and threatened me in the process. I had no intention of finding him after to tell him he was getting an additional report for the threats and having to be pulled away after seeing red, and there isn't a sum of money in the world that would have got me to turn round and find a club official to clarify additional misconduct after if he had tried to carry out those threats in the car park.

On a less scary note, I've had games where teams who have had players sent off or a bad result just straight up leave at full time. Again, I'm not seeing the benefit of chasing them down in order to pompously inform them they have committed extraordinary misconduct - they want to go, let them.

And we're talking here about words used - I don't know every single racist and homophobic term that can ever be used. If I'm interacting with a player and he uses a term I don't know, it's legit for me to get home, google it, only then realise it requires an extraordinary report and then do so.

If a team is generally behaving well, an individual player goes over the top and then club officials want to politely ask what will be reported, I'll explain that happily. But I worry some people are forgetting that a lot of forum users operate alone on open pitches with 22 strangers. If I've done something unpopular and end a match with a team furious with me, engaging them unnecessarily is not the top priority.

 

[JamesL]

Honestly I think even this is a courtesy rather than a necessity.

I particularly recall one game where an AR insisted on escorting me to my car after a particularly belligerent player manager got sent off and threatened me in the process. I had no intention of finding him after to tell him he was getting an additional report for the threats and having to be pulled away after seeing red, and there isn't a sum of money in the world that would have got me to turn round and find a club official to clarify additional misconduct after if he had tried to carry out those threats in the car park.

On a less scary note, I've had games where teams who have had players sent off or a bad result just straight up leave at full time. Again, I'm not seeing the benefit of chasing them down in order to pompously inform them they have committed extraordinary misconduct - they want to go, let them.

And we're talking here about words used - I don't know every single racist and homophobic term that can ever be used. If I'm interacting with a player and he uses a term I don't know, it's legit for me to get home, google it, only then realise it requires an extraordinary report and then do so.

If a team is generally behaving well, an individual player goes over the top and then club officials want to politely ask what will be reported, I'll explain that happily. But I worry some people are forgetting that a lot of forum users operate alone on open pitches with 22 strangers. If I've done something unpopular and end a match with a team furious with me, engaging them unnecessarily is not the top priority.

Fair enough.
I think I would be adding in my report though thay they weren't informed on the day.
I think I am used to NLS and the old "crime sheets". I have to email clubs a report after a step 5 match to advise being reported for x rule breach so there is no getting away from it.
I think it's fairly rare now for extraordinary stuff since we now have yellows and reds to deal with the non playing participants.

But your point is a fair one if the circumstances you've mentioned are existing. But in most cases there are opportunities to tell folks what is and isnt being reported.

 

[Wolf_Ref]

Unfortunately I have had this twice this season (adult). On both occasions players didn’t complain at all - silliest and easiest RC to put through with extraordinary report to state the discriminatory nature of the comment.

 

[Yampy]

Recent case in England has resulted in a manager receiving a 7 game ban for a homophobic slur to an opposition player. Said opposition player has received a 9 game ban for his part in the incident(s) that led to it.
I think this was a Step 5 league and those are hefty bans to be handing out.

Getting it right and reporting it is a must and I would always advise a referee to ensure the teams are told before you leave of what you will be reporting and, make sure that you can get some form of statement from the persons involved. Stick to the facts and don’t try to have a full enquiry because someone better trained than you will do the investigation.

 

[JamesL]

Getting it right and reporting it is a must and I would always advise a referee to ensure the teams are told before you leave of what you will be reporting and, make sure that you can get some form of statement from the persons involved. Stick to the facts and don’t try to have a full enquiry because someone better trained than you will do the investigation.

Agreed, but if a red card was issued there really is no need to do much more than show the red card and report the facts in your report.

Chances are for Offinabus most managers and secs will ask what was said/words were used and anyone with half a brain cell would understand the severity.

I think the process you are alluding too is very important for allegations. So player X says player Y homophobic ally abused him.

The process would be to get both the accusing player in the presence of the manager/secretary and ask them to tell you what they are alleging. Explain that you did not hear the incident so are unable to/were unable to take any action but that you will report the allegation to the appropriate authority, in most cases this will be the CFA.

You would then need to repeat this process with the accused, again in presence of their manager/secretary and advise the same that you did not hear the incident but you are required by protocol to report the allegation to the appropriate authority for them to investigate.

 

[RustyRef]

Agreed, but if a red card was issued there really is no need to do much more than show the red card and report the facts in your report.

Chances are for Offinabus most managers and secs will ask what was said/words were used and anyone with half a brain cell would understand the severity.

I think the process you are alluding too is very important for allegations. So player X says player Y homophobic ally abused him.

The process would be to get both the accusing player in the presence of the manager/secretary and ask them to tell you what they are alleging. Explain that you did not hear the incident so are unable to/were unable to take any action but that you will report the allegation to the appropriate authority, in most cases this will be the CFA.

You would then need to repeat this process with the accused, again in presence of their manager/secretary and advise the same that you did not hear the incident but you are required by protocol to report the allegation to the appropriate authority for them to investigate.

Yes, I have been through that when observing as the referee asked me to sit in on it.

 

[RyantheRef]

its no different from say, playing without goal nets/corner flags


" guys, just so you know, the league will be informed xxxxx"


its basic communication.

We dont decide what level of report to submit 24 hours after the game, this is to be dealt with, when present at the game. Assume nothing, not communicating the intent to the team can ( and after ten years exp on a league board i can tell you it does) result in say a report being thrown out.
Necessary? up for debate
Best practise? not up for debate, one more potential loophole closed, ( along with say, submission in orderly time )

Not a chance. My paperwork is between myself and the league/FA/responsible authority. The player and team will be brought into the fold when and if they are needed. I don't owe anyone an explanation and I don't have to make any administrative decisions while I'm on the field. They will find out what my report contains when and if they receive a copy from the authority.

And just to pre-empt the question, yes I tell them that when they ask. "I'll make all the necessary reports as I deem them to be required and the authority will contact you with further steps once it is out of my hands."

 

[RustyRef]

Not a chance. My paperwork is between myself and the league/FA/responsible authority. The player and team will be brought into the fold when and if they are needed. I don't owe anyone an explanation and I don't have to make any administrative decisions while I'm on the field. They will find out what my report contains when and if they receive a copy from the authority.

And just to pre-empt the question, yes I tell them that when they ask. "I'll make all the necessary reports as I deem them to be required and the authority will contact you with further steps once it is out of my hands."

Don't know where you are based, but in England you are expected, rather required, when there are allegations of discrimination to tell both the accused and the accusing player exactly what you are reporting. To the extent that at step 6 and above the referee is required to take a statement from both, in the presence of a club official, and use what is said verbatim on the misconduct report. Not following the prescribed process on a discrimination allegation would almost certainly see the referee charged and in serious hot water.

 

[RyantheRef]

Don't know where you are based, but in England you are expected, rather required, when there are allegations of discrimination to tell both the accused and the accusing player exactly what you are reporting. To the extent that at step 6 and above the referee is required to take a statement from both, in the presence of a club official, and use what is said verbatim on the misconduct report. Not following the prescribed process on a discrimination allegation would almost certainly see the referee charged and in serious hot water.

Interesting. I'm in Canada and this is most definitely not the process.