A&H

Handball or let it slide?

Refollie

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Just got home from a well-mannered 0-0.

I was AR2 and this happened on my near side, with the referee nearby with a clear view.

In approx the 80th min the keeper collects the ball on the floor in the penalty area after a bit of a scramble following a corner. The keeper stands up and offers his defender a hand up from the ground. The defender places both hands on the ball - which is in the keeper’s hands - to lift himself off the ground. The keeper then drop kicks it upfield.

What did the referee do?
What would you do as referee?
What would you do as AR2 with a clear view of what happened?
 
The Referee Store
Gee, that sounds really dumb. Do I gather the ball has been used as a towball?

I'm not convinced it's a handball - perhaps a different story if the handling is to assist the GK maintain control.

That being said, I'm not convinced it is NOT a handball.

A question best answered by that boring, cliched phrase 'what the game expects'
 
I once refereed a ladies' game where the keeper took the ball in hand to the edge of the penalty area, then handed it to a defender who carried out the drop kick! They seemed very surprised when I gave a penalty, explaining that the goalkeeper "did not have a good kick". They caused a huge fuss but I just waved them away. This was all just back story, here is the real relevance to the OP: the keeper saved the penalty, got up holding the ball, and was mobbed by defenders who hugged and embraced her; all of them touching the ball with arms as the keeper still held it. There was a fair bit of commenting (aimed at me) that she saved a penalty that should never have been given! I am afraid I was petty enough to give a second penalty for handball (which was scored).
 
I'd do the same as what would for this game:


As a ref, I call it. As AR I call it.

Just because the player had a brain freeze moment it doesn't make it a no offence. It's as clear and obvious as it could ever be.
 
No real difference from the player simply picking the ball up

pk no card
I would respectfully suggest there IS a massive difference, but wouldn't argue with the pen tbh, but in the absence of any appeals could see the logic for play on.
 
I would respectfully suggest there IS a massive difference, but wouldn't argue with the pen tbh, but in the absence of any appeals could see the logic for play on.

Deliberately touches the ball with their hand or arm?

to quote the original post " the defender places both hands on the ball"

By sounds of it the only thing he never did was tie a pretty bow round it!

I would get no pleasure from giving the pk but similiar to the la liga kick out clip, the players are responsible for their actions.
 
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How did the opposition react? If no one has seen it other than you I don't think I'd be getting involved, and it would almost certainly go against the referee's pre-match instructions.

Similar to @Dan56 I refereed a women's game where the keeper caught the ball, put it down at the feet a central defender who promptly picked it up and placed it down for a goal kick. Except it hadn't even come close to going out for a goal kick. Gave a penalty but both teams were saying it was harsh as it was just a misunderstanding. Worst thing was I was doing the game as a favour for my best mate as the league referee had pulled out last minute and we'd played a game at the same venue in the morning, he just had his head in his hands in the Bielsa style squat. Gave me material for my best man's speech at his wedding, especially as said central defender was there 😂
 
Deliberately touches the ball with their hand or arm?

to quote the original post " the defender places both hands on the ball"

By sounds of it the only thing he never did was tie a pretty bow round it!
Hmmm slight change of tack there!

You said, originally, that there was no difference between this and simply picking the ball up, not that they weren't both deliberate actions, which of course they are!
 
Hmmm slight change of tack there!

You said, originally, that there was no difference between this and simply picking the ball up, not that they weren't both deliberate actions, which of course they are!

Its maybe ( as usual) how I typed it. Both are clearly deliberate, giving us nowhere to go as referee.
 
The WWC is one of the more mysterious no-calls I've ever seen. The only possible reason I could see letting that slide is if there was a whistle from the crowd that confused the player--but that would mean a DB, not a play on.

On the OP, I'm at a bit of "it depends." Did the player grab the GKs arms/wrists and land on the ball, or blatantly grab the ball? And what level. I can see a PK, a nothing, or a DB for the injury to the player who was on the ground depending on the details.
 
Penalty. Up to the attacking team what they do with it, and a lesson learned for the offender.

If wink I wink saw wink it wink wink
 
Another plausible scenario is if a shot from outside is clearly going wide, Say 10 yards wide, and well into the next field. A defender standing a yard in from goal line jumps up, catches it and throws it to the keeper.

Again, this for me is a pen. As said above, the attackers have a choice of kicking it out.

Out of interest, anyone not giving this (for whatever reason), would they do the same if they are being assessed for promotion?
 
Out of interest, anyone not giving this (for whatever reason), would they do the same if they are being assessed for promotion?
This is exactly what I was thinking. I’d love to use the common sense approach here and say let’s get on with it, it’s a brain freeze moment but with an assessor watching there’s no way I could justify it in law
 
This is exactly what I was thinking. I’d love to use the common sense approach here and say let’s get on with it, it’s a brain freeze moment but with an assessor watching there’s no way I could justify it in law
The presence if an assessor/observer shouldn't affect decision making. I always recommend to referees starting out on the promotion process to referee every game as though there is an observer there, or referee every game as though there is not.
Deciding which laws to ignore with no observer present will come back to bite you!
 
The regime I’m in is far different than yours, but I always figured the point of being observed was at least as much to get better as to pass, so I never changed anything. (Ok, one thing: there was a weird obsession of some old guard folk about sleeve lengths for the ref team being the same, even though USSF had long abandoned the idea. So on an assessment game I would make sure my crew sleeves matched to not deal with a silly dinosaur who thought that was really important.)
 
The presence if an assessor/observer shouldn't affect decision making. I always recommend to referees starting out on the promotion process to referee every game as though there is an observer there, or referee every game as though there is not.
Deciding which laws to ignore with no observer present will come back to bite you!
Makes a massive difference to me. 5K stroll with nobody watching... 10K sprinting machine with eyes on
Pre-match goes from slagging off VAR over a cup of tea, to 25 minutes regurgitating last weeks' Ref's spiel. I could go on...
 
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