So my game on Thursday night, player from the away side running towards goal about 30 yards and a home player jumps in two footed but plays the ball perfectly. Now I awarded a free kick for the way he went in but I think I may have bottled the red card. If he hadn't taken the ball so cleanly then I wouldn't have had any hesitation in binning him, did I make the wrong call?
Getting the ball
- Thread starter Harry
- Start date
I'd be tempted to say yes it was wrong as jumping in 2 footed implies no control and using excessive force, that said, I would probably have managed it the same had it been my game. Law 18 and all that! Haha
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
thats a hard one to call.
for me, id say you made the wrong call - youve give the FK for the way he went in, which would be for serious foul play surely?
again, if it were me, you have 2 options:
1. play on, he one the ball perfectly, didnt catch the player at all - but maybe have a quiet word in his ear that next time he might not be so accurate
2. give the FK for serious foul play, as you have done, but then id have stuck to my guns and the LOTG and sent him off too
the arguement you have for the red would be that the Law does state that it is 'kicking or attempting, jumping or attemtping, punching or attemtping....' so you would class it as a clear attempt to make a forceful challenge, had he connected then it would have been out of control, horrible, and potentially a nice shattered ankle !!
for me, id say you made the wrong call - youve give the FK for the way he went in, which would be for serious foul play surely?
again, if it were me, you have 2 options:
1. play on, he one the ball perfectly, didnt catch the player at all - but maybe have a quiet word in his ear that next time he might not be so accurate
2. give the FK for serious foul play, as you have done, but then id have stuck to my guns and the LOTG and sent him off too
the arguement you have for the red would be that the Law does state that it is 'kicking or attempting, jumping or attemtping, punching or attemtping....' so you would class it as a clear attempt to make a forceful challenge, had he connected then it would have been out of control, horrible, and potentially a nice shattered ankle !!
Think safe. He's got the ball clean. How close was he to making contact with the other player? If the attacker has had to avoid contact you can sell a red. If not you can sell a yellow if the game needs to be calmed down, or you can "get away" with a good lecture if the game has been really tame. That said I'd be leaning towards a caution
The question is proximity. Is it a dangerous challenge 5ft from the attacker?
If it's close then red if there's no risk of contact not red.
If it's close then red if there's no risk of contact not red.
SM
The avuncular one
It is the type of ugly challenge which prompts the question in the referees head "Is there any reason not to send this maniac off?".
That said, I agree with Darren, that proximity is the key - anywhere near an opponent, or forcing an opponent to take action to get out of the way (including having to stop outside of harms way) then cherry, early shower. I can see the case if your 100% certain that there was nobody around that you can go with the big public display dressing down, caution, don't so much as breath on an opponent too heavily from now on as I am watching you like a hawk!
That said, I agree with Darren, that proximity is the key - anywhere near an opponent, or forcing an opponent to take action to get out of the way (including having to stop outside of harms way) then cherry, early shower. I can see the case if your 100% certain that there was nobody around that you can go with the big public display dressing down, caution, don't so much as breath on an opponent too heavily from now on as I am watching you like a hawk!
2 points that jump to mind here are:
Did he endanger the safety of his opponent?
Did he use excessive force?
Both can lead to red cards, but if you answer both these questions then I believe you can answer your question.
Did he use excessive force? Yes. But, like said above, proximity is the key to whether or not he endangered his opponents safety. If he didn't endanger his opponents safety, then I personally would have cautioned the player for C1. If he endangered the safety of his opponent, then I would have sent him off for SFP.
I think you can go either way, but what may have helped my decision as well is player expectation. Does everyone see it as a red card tackle? Or, do they just see it as a late challenge? Player expectation can tell you a lot, and so I would've used that in my decision. If no one expected it and you pull out a red, the temperature of the game flies up and becomes hard for you to manage from there on, so you have to see what is expected, but that should not make your final decision.
Did he endanger the safety of his opponent?
Did he use excessive force?
Both can lead to red cards, but if you answer both these questions then I believe you can answer your question.
Did he use excessive force? Yes. But, like said above, proximity is the key to whether or not he endangered his opponents safety. If he didn't endanger his opponents safety, then I personally would have cautioned the player for C1. If he endangered the safety of his opponent, then I would have sent him off for SFP.
I think you can go either way, but what may have helped my decision as well is player expectation. Does everyone see it as a red card tackle? Or, do they just see it as a late challenge? Player expectation can tell you a lot, and so I would've used that in my decision. If no one expected it and you pull out a red, the temperature of the game flies up and becomes hard for you to manage from there on, so you have to see what is expected, but that should not make your final decision.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
If attacker is in playing distance of ball red card
If not then nothing at all.
To give the fk in the first place he must be within playing distance and therefore a dismissal is the only option
If far away enough from player that its not a red then it can't be anything. Its not unsporting if you're in the middle of nowhere and two foot the ball without any opponent near, you'll just look like a bellend.
No middle ground here. Red or play on.
If not then nothing at all.
To give the fk in the first place he must be within playing distance and therefore a dismissal is the only option
If far away enough from player that its not a red then it can't be anything. Its not unsporting if you're in the middle of nowhere and two foot the ball without any opponent near, you'll just look like a bellend.
No middle ground here. Red or play on.
I disagree.
If needs be, you can give an IDFK for playing in a dangerous manner, which the player was, and so the player doesn't have to be in playing distance at all. You could also give an IDFK for, and I quote the LOTG, " commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player", and so you could caution the player for USB and restart play with an IDFK. I also think you could give a DFK for 'Tackles an Opponent' (again, from Law).
The point I am trying to make is I would be giving a free kick for this, and you could chose from a number of reasons to give a free kick.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
You can't give a card for playing in a dangerous manner if there is no player nearby.... Classic example is bicycle kicks... That's playing in dangerous manner IF player is nearby... If not then its fine...
SM
The avuncular one
I was advised by an assessor to never give a idfk for playing in a dangerous manner if it involves any sort of sliding or lunging tackle, regardless of where the opponent was. If you blow for it, it's for careless/reckless or excessive force foul tackle. Dfk plus whatever disciplinary action required. High foot challenges for the ball being very different of course.
Causes too much confusion for everyone otherwise.
Causes too much confusion for everyone otherwise.
I agree, I would't have given a free kick for this, I was just making the point that you could give a free kick for a number of reasons.
But the player is playing in a dangerous manner by jumping in with 2 feet?? Then you can. Also, as I said, you could give a free kick for a number of reasons.
Thanks for the advice, after the tackle I was playing it over and over in my head and I was sure I had bottled but first game back since April, I was a wee bit rusty. To answer some questions, yes the attacker was in playing distance of the ball, he was running towards said defender when it happened. Safe to say I made a mistake of keeping him on but at least I'm sure for next time
I think I would have cautioned him if there was no danger to attacker, say the ball was 2 yards in front of him while he was running with it, 2 yards is a big enough gap that the attacker is not in danger. However, if the attacker has to jump over/out of the way, then I'd be in my pocket, colour dependant on whether he was off the ground when he reached the attacker, or he had landed by that point and was just sliding.
