The Ref Stop

FA Cup Semi-Finals

J

JH

RefChat Addict
Is it standard practice to:

A - Appoint reserve assistant referees on these fixtures
and
B - Have reserve assistants basically acting as second fourth officials

Just wondering
 
The Ref Stop
A - Yes, has been for a few seasons

B - Yes, rather than just stand around they may as well make themselves useful so they help the 4th official out
 
RustyRef said:
A - Yes, has been for a few seasons

B - Yes, rather than just stand around they may as well make themselves useful so they help the 4th official out
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They were announced this year as part of the match officials on the FA website unlike last year, hence I assumed it was a first. Also never seen them on tv before with the fourth official.
 
I've definitely seen it before. They will normally stand in the tunnel area, and there will also be a suited member of the FA's refereeing department, often Peter Elsworth, with them.

Last season the semi-final reserve ARs were Harry Lennard and Con Hatzidakis, 2016 was Ed Smart and Ian Hussin, don't have data going beyond that.
 
Out of interest, do you know if fourth officials these days in the PL are instructed to help the referee in terms of decisions? Just wondering because whenever I see them in the Premier League, they are often dealing with the managers or generally taking a back seat. At a Europa League game at the Emirates this season, I saw the fourth official crouching, side-stepping and he was really engrossed in the game and was speaking to the referee throughout especially when things were on his side. Little things like bending over/half squat position and moving his body/neck to get better angles of the play. Probably first time I've seen that live, so I wondered whether that was a UEFA thing, that specific refereeing team or something else....
 
NorthLondonRef said:
Out of interest, do you know if fourth officials these days in the PL are instructed to help the referee in terms of decisions?
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I can't tell you about the PL, but I can tell you about MLS. One of it's referees told a group of us that each club has staff member who is supposed to get the substitution board ready and hand it to the 4th official so they can focus on dealing with the benches and watching the game to help the referee with decisions.
 
NorthLondonRef said:
Out of interest, do you know if fourth officials these days in the PL are instructed to help the referee in terms of decisions?
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If they're not, then the Laws of the Game are not being followed.
Other match officials [...] will assist the referee in controlling the match in accordance with the Laws of the Game but the final decision will always be taken by the referee.
[...]
With the exception of the reserve assistant referee, they assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee ...
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Thanks guys. Well, in my opinion, the fourth officials I've seen up close at the Emirates in the Premier League aren't really too focused on what's happening on the pitch. They are more relaxed and spectator types, whereas the guy I saw in the Europa League was literally watching the game as intensely as an assistant referee running the line would. I definitely prefer the style of the Europa League ref who actually looked like he was helping with decisions rather than spending him time having a chat with the managers and standing much further back and seemingly not helping.
 
Kevin Friend did a Q&A at an RA meeting I attended last week. His stated that the 4th Official's priority is to watch the game to assist the referee
 
Big Cat said:
Kevin Friend did a Q&A at an RA meeting I attended last week. His stated that the 4th Official's priority is to watch the game to assist the referee
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Ok. I guess, maybe the specific Europa League official had his own unique style where he looked more actively involved and more into it, whereas PL 4th officials are more laid back in that role. There's nothing to suggest that because the Europa League fourth official was crouching, bending, moving side to side across his space he's doing a better job than the PL official who's standing still and more casual but it did appear that way because he was much more active and something I noticed straight away as something a little different than usual.
 
That strikes me as extremely odd, given the absence of a matching official over the other side. Are we really suggesting that the laws of the game are set up to make it more likely that an offence will be spotted on one side of the pitch rather than the other?
 
GraemeS said:
That strikes me as extremely odd, given the absence of a matching official over the other side. Are we really suggesting that the laws of the game are set up to make it more likely that an offence will be spotted on one side of the pitch rather than the other?
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I think the idea is that the more people have eyes on the game (especially when they're there anyway) and are trying to help spot offences, the better the chances of getting decisions right.
 
It seems to be most common with Spanish and Portugese referees. I especially remember it with Pedro Proenca, his 4th official paid little notice to the technical areas and instead moved up and down the touchline following play. There could have been a fight kicking off behind him and he would be none the wiser.
 
The 4th is certainly in Scotland encouraged to take as vital a role as any other match official, calling fouls, throws etc any additional help or input is welcomed. Of course this is normally via comms kit
 
Ciley Myrus said:
The 4th is certainly in Scotland encouraged to take as vital a role as any other match official, calling fouls, throws etc any additional help or input is welcomed. Of course this is normally via comms kit
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I heard the Rangers right back was 3rd highest scorer this season or something, could the 4th official take a subs role up in Scotland if they get short of decent strikers!
 
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