The Ref Stop

Everton V Newcastle

P

Paul_10

Well-Known Member
Thoughts on the red card via VAR? Seems to be dividing opinion although I do think the right decision was made as Allen's tackle did have briefly 2 feet off the ground, no attempt to play the ball and the potential for a severe injury was there.

What is getting people though is Pawson was literally a few yards away and produced a yellow yet still got sent to the screen, what could he possibly of missed? Imo this does seem to be another example of PL refs having a higher threshold of what is a red card and the introduction of VAR has exposed that.
 
The Ref Stop
Unlike a number of other decisions last weekend which didn't get VAR'd, I don't understand why this NEEDS to be upgraded to red.

We've had discussions about these uber-cynical fouls before and at best, opinion was split about if they even qualify for red. This is more forceful and higher than some other similar tackles, so I would accept an argument that red is maybe the correct decision here - but what it isn't is C&O wrong, particularly in a world where Havertz and the Brighton keeper both weren't considered to need VAR intervention.

This is far more borderline than either of those, and I believe it's the same VAR who was on the Brighton v Liverpool game? Which just reeks of him being told off after that match and then overcompensating here.
 
For me this would have been a perfect example of Pawson going to the screen and sticking with his original decision.

In my opinion he shouldn’t have been sent across anyway and we know that if they do go across they are likely changing.
 
Degnann said:
For me this would have been a perfect example of Pawson going to the screen and sticking with his original decision.

In my opinion he shouldn’t have been sent across anyway and we know that if they do go across they are likely changing.
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I actually thought when watching live this would be the case because Pawson was right on top of it and he only deemed it to be a yellow card so as I say what has he saw on the monitor that made him think I got this wrong and it needs to be upgraded to a red? Or is it as some have suggested, once they go to the screen, they basically have to change their mind? I really hope not but evidence does seem to suggest this at times.

Although I do think this is more of a red card because both feet were off the floor and no attempt was made for the ball, I don't think a yellow is a clear and obvious error for an overturn imo.
 
Definitely shows what a farcical charade the OFR is
Pawson must've been looking at the screen, thinking WTF?
Then again, I've no idea what they're thinking or what stupid & ever changing instruction they're working to

We've seen some more dangerous examples of SPA classed as SFP on the EFL, but this one was plain wrong
I don't really know what the answer is. I see this type of incident (when there's absolutely no attempt to play the ball) as aggravated USB
Regardless, Stuart Atwell was working as a 'lone wolf' on this occasion. Pawson just did as he was told

I see Everton are appealing the red card
VARVAR :poop:
 
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Red card should have been issued first time of asking

serious foul play if you are considering it an attempt at the ball, violent conduct if you are not.

thats aside from a morality issue where you absolutely deserve to be sent off for that kind of challenge, its well above a trip, its cynical, intended only to wipe out the opponent, and no consideration given for the opponents safety.
If you are going to risk taking one for the team, you can have few complaints if your cunning plan backfires.
 
Anubis said:
Red card should have been issued first time of asking

serious foul play if you are considering it an attempt at the ball, violent conduct if you are not.

thats aside from a morality issue where you absolutely deserve to be sent off for that kind of challenge, its well above a trip, its cynical, intended only to wipe out the opponent, and no consideration given for the opponents safety.
If you are going to risk taking one for the team, you can have few complaints if your cunning plan backfires.
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Trouble is though, they rarely send off for this in the EPL, so can hardly see how it was a C&O mistake
Don't get me wrong, if they suddenly start sacking players off every time for this type of cheating, I won't be opposed to it. But they won't, so this was an isolated (and therefore wrong) decision. But my inclination has always been, it's VC if there's clearly no challenge for the ball
 
Big Cat said:
Trouble is though, they rarely send off for this in the EPL, so can hardly see how it was a C&O mistake
Don't get me wrong, if they suddenly start sacking players off every time for this type of cheating, I won't be opposed to it. But they won't, so this was an isolated (and therefore wrong) decision. But my inclination has always been, it's VC if there's clearly no challenge for the ball
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Well not that any of my matches are live globally at the weekend, that tackle will result in a red card

leaving aaide the var process, the correct colour card was eventually shown and spot on, a cheat to the game left the proceedings
 
Pawson's quite relaxed in his signalling isn't he? Just vaguely pointing in one drection or another. Could see him with a Gitanes Blondes hanging out his mouth if he could be arsed to light one. Pastis waiting for him at half-time, whenever that is, who cares eh?

Quite admire the Gallic laissez faire of it in comparison to others.
 
Appeal rejected

good, should be given a few extra games for his attitude at the ( correct) red card

only one reason he was sent off. His own indiscipline
 
I think it is the fact that Allen has how ever briefly been both feet off the ground that has led to the initial Yellow Card being upgraded to red
This is my view on the matter and I am sure others will have their own views on it
 
IMO it's an horrendous lunge, definitely endangering the opponent's safety, and Saint-Maximin was fortunate that he was able to avoid the contact coming on a planted foot. The fact that he tried to hurdle it does not alter the severity of the challenge - Allan came in at speed, jumped in entirely off the ground and therefore out of control. Id argue that it was a clear and obvious mistake by Pawson to go yellow initially. That being said, given some of the incidents lately where VAR hasn't recommended a review, I do get the uproar about it.
 
Just to be clear. I'm all in favour of these types of challenges being met with red. However, the vast majority of precedents in the EPL have not been dealt with as such. I think the dismissal was unexpected for this reason. Certainly not a C&O error on that basis. And I'm a Geordie....
Doubt seriously that the PGMOL will persist with this new level of the bar. Hopefully I'm wrong. I'd send off for it, but it's different at our level because our Match Control considerations are not the same as on the tele
 
Degnann said:
For me this would have been a perfect example of Pawson going to the screen and sticking with his original decision.

In my opinion he shouldn’t have been sent across anyway and we know that if they do go across they are likely changing.
Click to expand...
The VAR I’d only supposed to recommend an OFR if the VAR concludes there was a clear and obvious error. So it should be very unusual that there isn’t a reversal when it is sent down. When an R doesn’t change, he’s really saying the VAR made an error in sending it down. Where I have seen Rs not change, the VAR has been right more often than the R. But that doesn’t explain the PL, where as best I can tell there hasn’t been a non-reversal yet this season. Sounds like it may be they get dinged more for rejecting the VAR recommendation than for being wrong in accepting the VAR recommendation (but that is just speculation). It just remains hard for me to believe how poorly the PL has done with VAR. Video review has inherent flaws, but the PL seems to magnify all of them.
 
socal lurker said:
The VAR I’d only supposed to recommend an OFR if the VAR concludes there was a clear and obvious error. So it should be very unusual that there isn’t a reversal when it is sent down. When an R doesn’t change, he’s really saying the VAR made an error in sending it down. Where I have seen Rs not change, the VAR has been right more often than the R. But that doesn’t explain the PL, where as best I can tell there hasn’t been a non-reversal yet this season. Sounds like it may be they get dinged more for rejecting the VAR recommendation than for being wrong in accepting the VAR recommendation (but that is just speculation). It just remains hard for me to believe how poorly the PL has done with VAR. Video review has inherent flaws, but the PL seems to magnify all of them.
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If you watch the most recent episode of the MLS VAR review, there is a review in this that the referee turns down and the they admit it should never have been sent for review as was not clear and obvious. Same should apply here for me
 
Degnann said:
If you watch the most recent episode of the MLS VAR review, there is a review in this that the referee turns down and the they admit it should never have been sent for review as was not clear and obvious. Same should apply here for me
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Interesting that there were only two OFRs all weekend and both were judged to be incorrect send downs.
 
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