Encroachment

[Anubis]

hardly see MOTD or a live game, so this might be commonplace and I missed it

all 3 penalties at Chelsea v Leeds at weekend, referee stood in line with ball facing the 18, oblivious to the kick and focussing on the edge of the box
With the safety net * lets not pretend its not anything else* of var to spot shoelaces flapping into the area, he surely can focus on traditional matters, the ball, kicker, and keeper

looks very uneasy facing away from the ball

that aside, naive to blow for time as he did, obvious at first look there would be a flare up, no proactivity shown and surprising from a referee basically opening the floodgates for that to happen

 

[Martiju]

I think the idea is to try and manage encroachment more proactively, so that if there is any action to be taken then it's very obvious that the referee is actively involved.

That said, I agree it looks very awkward, and of course very different to what we would do at more normal levels.

 

[Anubis]

I think the idea is to try and manage encroachment more proactively, so that if there is any action to be taken then it's very obvious that the referee is actively involved.

That said, I agree it looks very awkward, and of course very different to what we would do at more normal levels.

It looks horrendous and unnatural, facing away from the critical matter.

if anything, I can understand the referee standing say, 14/16 yards rather than 12, but the stance of facing away from the kicker doee look awkward

 

[JamesL]

I would say I try and watch it all as much as possible.
We can see the kicker in our periferal vision, thus we can see when we need to actually look that way to spot feigning....

Another way to look at it is where are the most likely offences going to occur... In 11 years I have never had to penalise a kicker for an offence not have I personally seen it in the tele box either, but I have had to penalise encroachment. So why look away from where, statistically, there is a higher chance of an offence happening.

You watch encroachment until you see kicker is about to complete run up, move view to there (chances are so long as no one is majorly encroaching I am not going to penalise, same as GK mm off line so have a good idea of yes or no on encroachment).

Obviously I don't know what's happening in the PL if they are following similar process but that's what I am doing

 

[Anubis]

I would say I try and watch it all as much as possible.
We can see the kicker in our periferal vision, thus we can see when we need to actually look that way to spot feigning....

Another way to look at it is where are the most likely offences going to occur... In 11 years I have never had to penalise a kicker for an offence not have I personally seen it in the tele box either, but I have had to penalise encroachment. So why look away from where, statistically, there is a higher chance of an offence happening.

You watch encroachment until you see kicker is about to complete run up, move view to there (chances are so long as no one is majorly encroaching I am not going to penalise, same as GK mm off line so have a good idea of yes or no on encroachment).

Obviously I don't know what's happening in the PL if they are following similar process but that's what I am doing

Its of course entirely different working alone, or, away from the elite with all the tech

Alone, am side on, say 14/15 yards out, anyone runs past me, ( credible, clear to all), then I have the encroachment option, gk, am needing least a yard off line before can consider penalising,

it just does not sit right not watching the taking of a pk. I have in the past had my back to long kick defence freekicks, and to corners, ( esp with comms and ar shouting, kick), but, unless of course its epl instruction, I would be looking at the pk over encroachment. The Chelsea ref really cant retake a double hit on the pk as can it he classed a referee error if he is not looking at it to get it wrong in the first place? We then have var calling it regardless.

leaat if refs as you rightly say, is looking at as much as possible, and something is amiss, it can be passed off as an error to be corrected

 

[Anubis]

Update, whoever reffed the Norwich v Utd game gave a pk and displayed a much better stance, near exact what I described above.

 

[es1]

tbh alone i choose to go on the goal line, learned the hard way when a keeper pushed the ball onto the post, it rolled back and i couldnt tell if it was over the line as i was 12 yards out ish

 

[Anubis]

tbh alone i choose to go on the goal line, learned the hard way when a keeper pushed the ball onto the post, it rolled back and i couldnt tell if it was over the line as i was 12 yards out ish

Why did you not make your move when the ball was kicked, or, very certainly when it was palmed by gk?

by being on goal line you have no chance on encroachment plus are miles behind play for the gk save and boot up the pitch.

Would expect that given we call goals from 6, 12, 18, 25 yards out in open play, there is no need to stand on goal line for pks.

but, as ever, if it works, it works. As a referee i would never stand there, have never seen it coached and would urge observed referees not to stand there.

its maybe cos its happemed once, but probability wise, ( imo), thats an unwise position.

 

[JamesL]

Why did you not make your move when the ball was kicked, or, very certainly when it was palmed by gk?

by being on goal line you have no chance on encroachment plus are miles behind play for the gk save and boot up the pitch.

Would expect that given we call goals from 6, 12, 18, 25 yards out in open play, there is no need to stand on goal line for pks.

but, as ever, if it works, it works. As a referee i would never stand there, have never seen it coached and would urge observed referees not to stand there.

its maybe cos its happemed once, but probability wise, ( imo), thats an unwise position.

I always went on goal line when on own... And could see encroachment fine...
Boot from 12 yards start or goal line start is not much of a difference to me... I am like sh*t off a shovel

 

[es1]

Why did you not make your move when the ball was kicked, or, very certainly when it was palmed by gk?

by being on goal line you have no chance on encroachment plus are miles behind play for the gk save and boot up the pitch.

Would expect that given we call goals from 6, 12, 18, 25 yards out in open play, there is no need to stand on goal line for pks.

but, as ever, if it works, it works. As a referee i would never stand there, have never seen it coached and would urge observed referees not to stand there.

its maybe cos its happemed once, but probability wise, ( imo), thats an unwise position.

i wasnt perhaps aware or experienced enough to recognise what might happen and how best to react. i would be now but i still think it's the best place to stand.

at the end of the day, with a team of three we have an AR to watch keeper movement (PMI depending) and make goal line decisions and i think it's essential this role is undertaken when on your own.

yeah you're right, i'm not prioritising encroachment but you can still keep an eye on it (just) and if it does get saved i'm 'only' 10-12 yards behind where you'd be at the same point so not to far

i cant quite remember how but standing there was definitely encouraged / coached at some point as well

 

[Anubis]

i wasnt perhaps aware or experienced enough to recognise what might happen and how best to react. i would be now but i still think it's the best place to stand.

at the end of the day, with a team of three we have an AR to watch keeper movement (PMI depending) and make goal line decisions and i think it's essential this role is undertaken when on your own.

yeah you're right, i'm not prioritising encroachment but you can still keep an eye on it (just) and if it does get saved i'm 'only' 10-12 yards behind where you'd be at the same point so not to far

i cant quite remember how but standing there was definitely encouraged / coached at some point as well

obv each situation but i would like to imagine me going, shot, keeper palms, then sprinting to line, to see if it goes in, i call goals in open play ffrom 18 yards out, would hope to call a pk by being ten

but yes, if it works, thats the main thing.

 

[GraemeS]

We often talk about players overestimating their own ability when it comes to advantage, but it seems like it's the case as well for referees when judging their positioning! I'm still well off my fitness peak, but even at my best I can't imagine thinking that I could start level with the penalty spot, view the kick, watch the keeper make a save, realise that it's going to be a tight decision, start my sprint and even get more than half way through my first step before the keeper jumps on the ball or it clearly spins away/in to the goal.

Reaction and sprint speed aren't the solution to this problem, any referee relying on that is going to make their life harder by having just as difficult a decision as a static ref, but on the move and with a sense of panic that will undermine any decision.

Working with assistants, you just have to trust them to make the key call on the line and focus on your responsibilities around the kick and player encroachment. I wouldn't go as far as visibly staring away from the goal (it's important for your match control that you're seen to be looking at the goal even if in reality it's an assistant's recommendation that you 100% go with), but there's a reason the standard side-on view is what we expect and it does seem weird to deviate from that. Even at the top level with VAR and GLT to back you up, the expectation is that you referee as close as possible to how you would without it, so I agree with Anubis' original post in that it's an odd choice.

On your own, I tend to go with the half-and-half approach of standing on the corner of the 6-yard box. Close enough that you can easily make a fairly reliable call on the ball crossing the line, while also still being able to stare at the taker and other players. It's going to be tricky to make the 100% correct call on GK encroachment looking back like that - but the reality is, you're still going to have a better view than anyone else on the pitch, so it's easy to sell a retake if he does stray into your peripheral vision, or a no-call if he doesn't.