Dissent
- Thread starter raf83
- Start date
You'll get a variety of opinions on this.
For me, it would likely be a sin bin offence (or a dissent caution if sin bins aren't applicable) but a lot depends on context and how public it was.
Many will say it's a straight red. Some will say it depends on age, if it's kids they'd be issuing a red card but open age maybe a sin bin etc.
This is all in the opinion of the referee.
I think context is key here.
Saying "**** off ref" can be done in a couple of way for me. One gets a definite red and the other gets nothing but a wry smile.
The latter needs to be a question. It's almost a despairing plea for understanding. Imagine drawing out the oooooffff and stick a question mark at the end. Perhaps add "really?" at the end too.
The former is directed and aggressive. OFFINABUS.
It's not easy.
Saying "**** off ref" can be done in a couple of way for me. One gets a definite red and the other gets nothing but a wry smile.
The latter needs to be a question. It's almost a despairing plea for understanding. Imagine drawing out the oooooffff and stick a question mark at the end. Perhaps add "really?" at the end too.
The former is directed and aggressive. OFFINABUS.
It's not easy.
So you are saying it's never dissent / a sin bin?
For me I don't think I could ever bring myself to send off for it, in isolation (unless I was told categorically by the FA it had to be). But I would always support those that do send off, ultimately if the are offended, insulted or feel abused by it it's not for me to say otherwise.
I've said on here many times I must use the phrase a 100 times a day in many different contexts so it would be hypocritical to suddenly feel offended/abused/insulted by it.
I think you've answered your own question here. If it's abusive or offensive.... Red.
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Your second post pretty much answered your first post.
One size does not fit all though. A lot to consider that is not just a bout the words used. In my games, they would be sin bin more often than red.
Oh you pedant! I was giving the two extremes.
Going back to the the earlier comments, I'd probably give a sin bin more frequently than a red for this.
I did have a cup game last year where similar phrases were said to me. One did get a red and the other did get the wry smile. I did have to explain that its about 'how' it is said as much as what is said.
The same happened in my example above. He upgraded to red from a sin bin. What a silly billy.
So you are saying it's never dissent / a sin bin?
For me I don't think I could ever bring myself to send off for it, in isolation (unless I was told categorically by the FA it had to be). But I would always support those that do send off, ultimately if the are offended, insulted or feel abused by it it's not for me to say otherwise.
I've said on here many times I must use the phrase a 100 times a day in many different contexts so it would be hypocritical to suddenly feel offended/abused/insulted by it.
Your response was thought-provoking @JamesL . Does this bring us onto a secondary question... do tolerance levels have to adapt as we, as refs, progress through the levels? I notice you're a L3.
I have absolutely no doubt I'd be dismissing a player at grassroots level if they told me to F-off.
I was recently a spectator at a National League South game; I found the way the benches spoke/shouted at the fourth official and ref to be a bit of an eye-opener. I'm sure I wouldn't tolerate it in a county cup R1 game!
Did your tolerance levels adapt as you progressed?
This stems from the very top level. How often do we see it in televised games. No lip reading expertise is needed to see "f... off" regularly being aimed at an official.
The higher the level - the higher the threshold seems to be, though I know of no direct advice on the subject.
At grassroots level, the same player getting away with telling the Ref to "F... off" twice, is heading towards a major development, in my opinion.
It's also likely to be creating a problem for the next referee.
The higher the level - the higher the threshold seems to be, though I know of no direct advice on the subject.
At grassroots level, the same player getting away with telling the Ref to "F... off" twice, is heading towards a major development, in my opinion.
It's also likely to be creating a problem for the next referee.
Not really... I've always adopted a similar approach as described.
If being assessed should you send off?So you are saying it's never dissent / a sin bin?
For me I don't think I could ever bring myself to send off for it, in isolation (unless I was told categorically by the FA it had to be). But I would always support those that do send off, ultimately if the are offended, insulted or feel abused by it it's not for me to say otherwise.
I've said on here many times I must use the phrase a 100 times a day in many different contexts so it would be hypocritical to suddenly feel offended/abused/insulted by it.
That depends on if you would send off if you weren't being watched...
I thought the assessor would mark you down for not sending off.
This explains it entirely.
Up until the last few years i would go red regardless.
In the last 5 years or so i've used the "did you tell me to f off" line. If they say yes then i send off if they say no i respond "i think we understand each other.
A good observer should be asking what the send of was for and making a determination on that conversation as to the accuracy of the sanction.
Depending on how it was said I might well go the other way. "F**k off ref" can be said and meant in different ways, if said in a fairly soft voice it can almost be said as a question, as in are you sure ref. Equally it can be said with pure aggression and that is when I would be starting to think red, but there are multiple levels between these two examples.
I don't think there are many observers these days that would mark you down for not sending off for it, at least not unless it was on the extreme side. I'd want to see it dealt with and not ignored, but that doesn't necessarily mean a red card.