The Ref Stop

Dissent - Is it Getting Worse?

M

Matthew

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Just wondering if anyone else has noticed an increase in dissent over the past couple of seasons? I've been reffing six years and seem to have been giving a lot more cards over the past two or three seasons. Not sure if it's just bad luck on my part or representative of a wider trend! :)
 
The Ref Stop
If the various comments on the forum since the start of this season are anything to go by, its not just dissent that seems to be on the increase but Offinabus as well. Players just can't seem to keep their mouths shut.
 
I would say it is getting worse. Amongst the many possible reasons I would lay the blame at the feet of us referees. The individual referee tolerance and disposition!

We (as a generalised group) lack consistency over what is dissent or OFFINABUS, some colleagues don't like to show cards, some don't send in cards, it all adds up to a confusing mess.

Players locally blame ref fitness, the ageing referees available. True story. But it doesn't seem like there are enough refs taking up the whistle to cover those retiring. Why? Refereeing is seen as something only masochists do because of the abuse! First question asked to me when I tell someone I am a ref - "your crazy, bet you get loads of abuse!"

Reality is that if guidance came down from above that we were to adopt a consistent, rugby style zero tolerance approach, behaviour would quickly change after the expected "extinction burst" - :) poor behaviour, it is killing the game slowly
 
Supermonkey said:
I would say it is getting worse. Amongst the many possible reasons I would lay the blame at the feet of us referees.
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THAT is exactly my take on it as well!

Travelling to a game a few weeks ago, all three of us in the car (plus an extra we were taking to another game at the same park) I put forward the idea that as a federation we should tighten up and lower our tolerance levels, "You're preaching to the converted mate!" "Spot on Matty" etc etc was the response.

During the game, a very niggly, bad-tempered affair the ref gave two cards for dissent and one for tackle from behind. Had I been in the middle, there would have been at least six for dissent/unsporting remarks!

Another argument I heard after mentioning it at another time, "Ah, well, there'd be too many cards and sendings off"

Well, yeah, I thought, but only for a weekend, or two. By the third they should have got the message and keep their gobs shut!

Problem is, as you point out, there is no consistency between US as referees - and the players will try and push the boundaries every time.

It's something I might bring up at our AGm which is coming up soon.
 
Interesting replies here guys! I totally agree that us referees have to take a certain amount of responsibility.

I personally feel that I'm pretty good at dealing with dissent but all referees have different tolerance levels and that allows players to do what they want a lot of the time. Maybe we do need zero tolerance, and like Matty says, there'd only be an increase in bookings/red cards for a couple of weeks!
 
I don't know; I find that this season has been one of the best for me in terms of not having dissent. Yes, there've been the emotional reactions to decisions people didn't like -- but even then, I don't think I made too many this season -- and it has been really muted after that. In fact, this is one of the first seasons where I've seen players out in the pub and they've actually actively come over to chat with me and, get this, asked me questions about the LOTG and why, maybe, they got cautioned in one of their previous matches and didn't know why. I don't think the issue is not enough bookings, I think the issue is not enough two-way communication.
 
I agree that dissent is one of the few things that makes football worse. However it is easy to understand that the ethos in football is centred around questioning the referee, which is partly down to how difficult it can be to officiate football and how little knowledge your average everyday football punter has of the LotG.

Because of this mentality in football it is a shame that the result is that referees don't have the automatic higher amount of respect given to officials in some other sports. We are also encouraged to embrace the fact that we will have our authority routinely questioned or undermined and should attempt this "two way communication" which someone else mentioned earlier in the thread instead of assuming that your authority will get you out of difficult situations. It is interesting to see spectators of other sports pick up on the dissent given to referees as a real issue in football, when the officials in their respective sport will come under very little criticism, but that is just the culture that we have to deal with in football.

Just my thoughts.
 
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Ryan Owens said:
I don't think the issue is not enough bookings, I think the issue is not enough two-way communication.
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More bookings is not what is being suggested (well maybe in the very short term) more changing the emphasis from "poor referees getting abuse", to a more proactive approach of encouraging better discipline. Communication without a listening ear is talking to yourself.
 
Supermonkey said:
Communication without a listening ear is talking to yourself.
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I like that phrase.

I'm not saying 'we should show more yellow cards' I am saying that I feel we should 'have a consistent, perhaps lower-tolerance level'. Yes, this would probably result in a higher card-count early on, but not for long. Particularly, if before a season kicks-off ALL the clubs/teams are notified that this will be happening.

Before each season here, all the clubs are informed of any law-changes (IFAB) and any local regulation alterations. Wouldn't be too hard to add a 'Referee Directive' to that document.

Throughout the season, we have monthly 'coaching nights', albeit fairly poorly attended, but we do have the opportunity to discuss match incidents etc. Here we can, as a group, hear what is being said to other refs, and perhaps reach a consensus on whether a caution should have been given as a unified group and hopefully introduce some kind of consistency.
 
Straying from the subject a little I was playing Sunday league football up until the end of last season and I was as guilty as any at moaning, critisising and reacting to referees decisions - I must stress I never crossed the line by abusing or swearing at any time but I still picked up my fair share of (deserved) yellow cards.

Having retired from playing but keen to stay involved in football I took up reffing this year.

I of course have already had my share of loud mouths and moaners. Whilst I am pretty tolerant of it as I know I used to be like it I do find myself being dragged into verbals with the more fiery characters as far as when they make a sarcastic comment about a decision I usually come back with a whitty comment or if the moan about my performace I'll take the p!ss out of their performace.

I KNOW I shouldn't do this and am quickly learning how tolerant you long term refs are! It's hard to make the transition from player to ref and can see both sides of it.....
 
Consistency is the key, but is, I believe, one of the hardest things to achieve. As has been said before, we all have our various tolerance levels. Some refs will put up with "the language of the street/park" where every other word begins with F. Some won't. Your own personal tolerance might appear inconsistent (can't you tell that there is a confession coming). Putting up with swearing on a field in the middle of nowhere one week, while clamping down on it the next because your pitch is next to a child's play area with youngsters and mums. Personally, I feel that some swearing is (dependent on location) allowable. But if the abuse is directed at someone then we need to clamp down. Why should players or anyone else suffer some abuse?

Having sent off a player the week before for calling an opponent a c..t, this weekend I gave strong words of advice to another player who said the word very loudly to himself after a poor shot at goal. Unfortunately for me the opposing team were the team that had the player sent off last week. Needless to say, their manager wanted to know why I had sent their player off but done nothing this time. I managed to blag it by telling him that the use of the word last week was direct abuse whereas this week it was just self-chastisement. However, on reflection, he was absolutely right and I was being inconsistent. I had said the previous week that I did not want to hear the c word on my field of play.

I don't normally do a pre-game chat, but I think that from now on, when I introduce myself to the coaches I will be telling them that I have seen an increase in the amount of dissent and foul language and that my tolerance levels have gone down and I will be looking to deal with such instances more robustly. I will make particular mention that use of the c word in any circumstance will result in an early shower (this includes the word cheat).

To top it all, I reffed a ladies game on Sunday and their coach was the player I had sent off!! He still wasn't happy about it and found it necessary to say. He said that he had been playing and swearing for 25 years and had never been sent off for it and other players he knew couldn't believe that he had. I told him that just because nothing had been done in the last 25 years didn't make it right. We had a chat about inconsistency and I said that I felt that we had both learned from the incident.

I was quite pleased though that when I heard him talking to his team on the pitch just before kick-off he said "and no swearing, this referee won't put up with any swearing."

Sorry, rant over. We do need to communicate more. I will certainly be doing so. We also need to be more consistent, both individually and as a profession.
 
In my opinion - YES.
I was shocked my a team's behaviour yesterday.
white v red.
Scrappy 1st half and got that gut feeling someone will be booked in this game.
2nd half came RED player went in for a tackle and ended up connecting with the players shin and no where near the ball.
I pull him over to caution him and I'm surrounded by the team. I tell the main instigator to walk away and he does. Then another player starts to cherp up. He fails to calm down so player A gets YC for the FT and player B gets YC for decent.
Now here is the worse bit

THEY WERE UNER 13 side!!!
 
refdave83 said:
THEY WERE UNER 13 side!!!
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I find it's that age group where the dissent really starts.
The coaches get a bit more competitive, the testosterone is kicking in with the players and the game gets a bit more physical and competitive.

The players are beginning to find their feet as adults, and they take their cues from the adults from around them in terms of behaviour. If the coach or parents are mouthy, chances are the kids will see grow up like that in the game because it is seen as the appropriate behaviour by adults.

Unfortunately, in the 90 minutes we get them, we rarely get chance to earn the 'role model' status as do the other adults. Especially when, as I have had, booking a player for basically losing his head and putting others in danger, hearing his mother shouting "Don't worry Johnny, the ref's got it totally wrong, you/re doing an awesome job!" from the touchline.

"Yeah" I think, "an awesome job of trying to hurt people!"
 
Not sure if its a case of it getting worse, or just more referees dishing out the cards for it. As far as I can see, it has always remained at the same level, but with more support from leagues, FA's etc, we are doing more about it.
 
Not sure if its a case of it getting worse, or just more referees dishing out the cards for it. As far as I can see, it has always remained at the same level, but with more support from leagues, FA's etc, we are doing more about it.
 
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