A&H

Open Age Dissent (and ref swearing at player)?

Gabriel

Serial whistler
Level 7 Referee
Hi all, I had an OA game as AR this afternoon. I was running the line for a referee, who is a former Football League ref in the 80's from my area. I have a question regarding an incident which really surprised me in the second half of the game.
The home side were 1-0 up when this happened. It stemmed with a throw in decision that had gone against them on my side (it was one of those incidents where it hit both players so quickly it was almost impossible to tell who touched it last, the ref had no idea when I looked at him so he left it down to me, I just went with gut instict of away side and tried my hardest to sell it).
This led to one of the home players running up to me from about 15 yards and shouting "f***ing hell lino, you blind?". The ref heard this (it was hard not to!) and instantly came over and gave the player an absolute bollocking. My question is, surely something so public and provocative should be a sin bin (at least, considering the reference to a disability!)? - the player got away with a warning.
Another thing that surprised me about this incident was when the ref (allegedly! - it did sound like these were the words used) proceeded to tell the player to "shut the f**k up". Since when were we allowed to speak to players like that?! He used that sort of demeanor/language multiple times throughout the match.
I realise similar things may have been covered before, but the ref's language added an extra bit for me to ask about.
Thanks!
 
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A&H International
If you were abused and you deemed the language discriminatory against blind people the player should have been sent off and an extraordinary report raised. Blind is a commonly used piece of discriminatory language used on the football pitch. That doesn't make it okay, but it is worth noting.

If you still have a chance I think you could raise it with the referee in the middle, but if you aren't comfortable doing that, then message your county fa.

I worked with a level 2 and he swore at players, and made really sarcastic comments but not aggressively, but his comments didn't really seem like he was trying to make any friends.
 
A lot of ex, and probably current, top level referees swear at players. It probably isn't right, but the players like it and would rather than that get cautioned for dissent, in effect the referees give it back with interest. I worked with one ex-EPL official who swore at players like a trooper, they didn't mind it and they fully respected him. Things have moved on a bit since then, but I'm pretty sure it still happens.
 
You're right about the historical bit. However these days, with the Comms recorded from every game and then overlaid onto the footage in MOAS, it'd be a brave referee who would 'give it back' in this manner ...
A lot of ex, and probably current, top level referees swear at players. It probably isn't right, but the players like it and would rather than that get cautioned for dissent, in effect the referees give it back with interest. I worked with one ex-EPL official who swore at players like a trooper, they didn't mind it and they fully respected him. Things have moved on a bit since then, but I'm pretty sure it still happens.
 
Hi all, I had an OA game as AR this afternoon. I was running the line for a referee, who is a former Football League ref in the 80's from my area. I have a question regarding an incident which really surprised me in the second half of the game.
The home side were 1-0 up when this happened. It stemmed with a throw in decision that had gone against them on my side (it was one of those incidents where it hit both players so quickly it was almost impossible to tell who touched it last, the ref had no idea when I looked at him so he left it down to me, I just went with gut instict of away side and tried my hardest to sell it).
This led to one of the home players running up to me from about 15 yards and shouting "f***ing hell lino, you blind?". The ref heard this (it was hard not to!) and instantly came over and gave the player an absolute bollocking. My question is, surely something so public and provocative should be a sin bin (at least, considering the reference to a disability!)? - the player got away with a warning.
Another thing that surprised me about this incident was when the ref (allegedly! - it did sound like these were the words used) proceeded to tell the player to "shut the f**k up". Since when were we allowed to speak to players like that?! He used that sort of demeanor/language multiple times throughout the match.
I realise similar things may have been covered before, but the ref's language added an extra bit for me to ask about.
Thanks!
I think the question you should be asking is what the referee would have done if the player did the exact same thing to him? If the answer is a sin bin then you have every right to be unhappy. But from what you have written you'd find he would have handled it the same. Or even a lighter bollocking if it was at him.

The general expectation is that in OA games the ARs adjust their level of tolerance to that of the referee and not the other way.

In terms of referees swearing, it is the style of some referees and usually goes with the flow of the game. You'd find that it happens between top referees and players who know each other well and accepted between them.
 
In all my years of reffing i've never sworn at a player as the floodgates would open for the rest of the game.

I try to find a "witty response" when needed instead of dropping to the lowest common denominator.
 
This led to one of the home players running up to me from about 15 yards and shouting "f***ing hell lino, you blind?". The ref heard this (it was hard not to!) and instantly came over and gave the player an absolute bollocking. My question is, surely something so public and provocative should be a sin bin (at least, considering the reference to a disability!)? - the player got away with a warning.
I agree that the ref should have at least sin-binned the player but, as you've said, he's clearly "old school".
Trying to claim that the language used is somehow discriminatory is a ridiculous stretch however. The words used are insulting at worst.
 
YHTBT etc, but a loud bollocking seems reasonable for the player, and now everyone knows that won't be accepted from thereon. While it's not my style, and I wouldn't ever recommend telling a player to STFU, unfortunately you're now exposed to adult men's football and adult men talk to each other like this. Context, of course, changes everything.
 
Red, and a report to the safeguarding team as aimed at a minor.

There's a massive difference between an exasperated '****ing hell, lino' and someone running towards you and saying it

No doubt the ref is patting himself on the back for 'man-managing' the incident.

It wasn't difficult to get to football league in the old class 1/2/3 days, mainly about having the right connections and being available.
 
Thanks for all the input everyone!
Trying to claim that the language used is somehow discriminatory is a ridiculous stretch however. The words used are insulting at worst
OFFINABUS (and not discrimination) is more what I was referring to, I just didn't make that very clear so that is my fault!
It wasn't difficult to get to football league in the old class 1/2/3 days, mainly about having the right connections and being available.
Definitely, the season the ref in question joined the Football League lists, he was one of 45 officials on this league (same as Saturday's match) on the FL lists at the time. There were only 46 officials on the league at the time! This was simply because the league's ref sec also had a lot of influence on the FL.
 
I have often spoken to players in ways that may not be 100% above board and the understanding that I have with myself is that, if I do that, then I will not issue misconduct for their response (provided their response is verbal). On many occasions, it has worked very well.
 
It wasn't difficult to get to football league in the old class 1/2/3 days, mainly about having the right connections and being available.
Is that based on first hand experience ?

Definitely, the season the ref in question joined the Football League lists, he was one of 45 officials on this league (same as Saturday's match) on the FL lists at the time. There were only 46 officials on the league at the time! This was simply because the league's ref sec also had a lot of influence on the FL.
Hopefully one of them isn't your next Observer !
 
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