A&H

Junior/Youth Dealing with Dissent!

Mooseybaby

Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Over the past 8 seasons both as a referee and parent seen a lot of youth football across Dorset and Hampshire.

Not wishing to open up Pandora regarding carding in youth football etc, however one thing that has struck me about a large number of grassroots refs I seen down here is the inability/unwillingness to deal with dissent, verbal and by action (kicking ball away etc).

For a while I did get into the habit of warning managers before games that I wouldn't tolerate things like dissent, especially kicking the ball away, but often found it made things worse with players pushing the boundaries of what they could get away with, like launching the ball as far as they possibly could just as the ball was about the run out of play, followed by a sarky laugh. Now I figure there's no point warning pre-match anymore as they don't listen anyway, they are old enough to know better and if they cross the line, I am just going to whip out a card.

One of the most blatant examples I have seen was last season, when the ball went out for a goal kick near the corner flag. Defender has ball at his feet and jogging it back to his keeper. Attacker runs from behind him, takes the ball off his feet, dribbles into the penalty area and then launches the ball towards the opposite corner flag. Referee said/did nothing with the attacker, not a single word. :wall:

So imagine my surprise this past weekend when watching my son's game when I witness a referee dealing with a petulant oik. Away side had been gobby throughout the game, ref had previously dished out a public warning for a player kicking the ball away (at his own free kick). Last 5 minutes, away player decides to show his displeasure at a freekick/throw in decision, picks the ball up and aggressively slams into the ground in full view of the referee, who calls him over and shows him a yellow card. Player responds to the yellow card by sarcastically applauding the referee, who responds in kind by whipping out the red. Look of bewilderment on players face, hands in the air and complaining to his coach "what did I do?". Probably not used to seeing a referee that is not willing to put up with the crap from a stroppy teenager! I was standing on the touchline thinking well done that man! :)
 
The Referee Store
Probably to a man we are thinking the same too Moosey!!
There is a certain pleasure in doing a 3 card shuffle that only us referees would know!!!! F*** Em
 
Have to say, I've only done a handful of youth matches so far this season ranging from U14 to U16 level but I've been surprised at the level of respect shown to the referee by both players and spectators (parents) alike. I've only dished out one yellow for dissent and have had no abuse or negativity from either the sidelines or the field of play. I've found it a welcome break from the tedium of listening to and enduring the same old predictable crap that I get from the adult players/coaches on Saturday afternoons. Wasn't always the case in the past. ... :)
 
Interested in this thread, I'm an old long in the tooth level 5 looking to back away from refereeing commitments gradually by leaving open age games and taking u 18's and u17's. I find managing dissent more difficult in youth football. Open age I was used to managing it on the hoof by and large, frustration I could choose to ignore if it suited and getting a strong grip on the more emotive stuff. However I find speaking to young players "on the hoof" doesn't appear to work nor does banter and I'm disappointed to find I've been drawn into one or two unedifying exchanges and my having a word seems to turn into a row. I'm now less vocal than I'd like to be with the low level stuff and feel I don't manage the games as well as I used to in open age. Yesterday I allowed myself to be drawn into a debate with a team secretary over a player "who couldn't help himself swearing" I allowed this conversation to fill my whole half time interval and "unready" to start second half with a clear head. I really should have given him two yellows for mouth and then told secretary where to go at half time. Disappointed to find this weakness manifest in my game. Sorry for rant but I feel a bit better for it. cheers
 
I’ve only refereed adult football bar one under 16’s game and I have to say, that was my worst one for dissent. It was an evening game, they’d obviously just come down after school, loads of their mates were watching which obviously triggered something in their mind to show off. Nothing more satisfying than dishing out a red after 10 minutes right in front of all their friends after telling me to f**k off when I simply asked them their name.
 
I find dissent in youth teams on both ends of the spectrum. I see some excellent teams and some terrible ones. I find the reason behind the difference is the demographic of the club to some extent but mostly the culture the coach instils in the team. The worst offenders are the ones whose poor behaviour is supported by coach/manager. On the other hand occasionally I see caches who substitute players off immediately after they are mouthy to the referee or go for a deliberate hack. It was a pleasure to referee your team you good sir.
 
I find dissent in youth teams on both ends of the spectrum. I see some excellent teams and some terrible ones. I find the reason behind the difference is the demographic of the club to some extent but mostly the culture the coach instils in the team. The worst offenders are the ones whose poor behaviour is supported by coach/manager. On the other hand occasionally I see caches who substitute players off immediately after they are mouthy to the referee or go for a deliberate hack. It was a pleasure to referee your team you good sir.

I agree, the well coached teams tend generally tend to have less of an issue. At youth football level I tend to make a point of running past the coaches and saying "x is walking a fine line here" if they are already in the book. The number of times the coach has said - "yep, but i'm willing for him to learn the lesson the hard way" or something similar. That way if you do need to pull out the Red on the player there are no surprises :)
 
Why bother?

If the coach either can't see, or doesn't care, that their player is on thin ice, why should we as referees?

These same coaches who substitute their problem players off at the first sign of trouble, will be the same ones that will expect to be allowed to substitute them off in lieu of a card......and where does that expectation come from? From referees who allow them to do it.
 
Why bother?

If the coach either can't see, or doesn't care, that their player is on thin ice, why should we as referees?

These same coaches who substitute their problem players off at the first sign of trouble, will be the same ones that will expect to be allowed to substitute them off in lieu of a card......and where does that expectation come from? From referees who allow them to do it.

Not saying they get a "free pass" in lieu of a card, simply saying that much as at OA level i'll have a word with the Captain in passing "you need to get hold of x, otherwise I will" I do it with the manager on the touchline, as the captains at youth level tend to have less influence. Even if I don't have a word with the manager or captain in passing, if there is an offence committed that requires a sanction, it gets dealt with, there is no shirking of any responsibility.
 
I see Padfoots point and think I’ve used both tact’s over the years. A good manager who’s been responsive and respectful may get a better warning than the no-warning that the Plant Pot manager didn’t get. Respect works both ways....
 
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Most of my youth cards this year have been for dissent. I am fed up with kids gobbing off at me and now have a reputation in senior youth.
Once bitten twice shy.
Most times a bit of player management is called for Remember they are only do as they see in tv huh
 
Once bitten twice shy.
Most times a bit of player management is called for Remember they are only do as they see in tv huh

Player management only works if the player(s) in question are receptive to it.

Whether it is hormonal teenagers trying to play the big man in front of their mates, or a hungover 30 something on a Sunday morning. Some players won’t listen and act shocked when the cards come out.
 
Player management only works if the player(s) in question are receptive to it.

Whether it is hormonal teenagers trying to play the big man in front of their mates, or a hungover 30 something on a Sunday morning. Some players won’t listen and act shocked when the cards come out.

That just about sums up my first 3 seasons of OA.... I don't care if I was Howard Webb, some of these k***s didn't respect anyone from the other team to themselves never mind you trying to prevent carnage... I had to toughen up and toughen up very quickly... If they sensed weakness with the ref they played on it. I found I needed to awaken my Mr *** inner self, If they wanted to act like idiots, thats fine but I wasn't prepared to be treated like one. There was usually a bad outcome (for them).... Once they knew me it calmed down, almost to hardly any cards... I'd conquered them!!! Result!!!
 
I only ever Referee Youth football and have to say dissent is the main issue the youth league face. Already had around 10 yellows this season for dissent. I find the stepped approach in youth football will only ever work for teams where as mentioned the manager has installed a acceptance level in his players.
 
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