Crystal Palace vs Liverpool

[Mooseybaby]

Lively game, 2 penalty shouts, 1 given, 1 not.

Palace's Zaha lifts the ball over the advancing Karius and gets wiped out by the Liverpool keeper before the ball misses the goal and out of play. Referee Neil Swarbrick didn't hestitate in awarding Palace a penalty.

Mane tries to cut back from the goal line, gets a clip on the ankle then theatrically throws himself on the deck. Neil Swarbrick delayed giving a decision, possibly as he was receiving advice from his assistant then awards an indirect free kick to Palace then yellow cards Mane for simulation.

Both good calls for me. Replays showed Mane was clipped, but the delay and the theatrics in the fall suggested a dive.

Mane was very lucky to avoid a 2nd yellow and stay on the pitch during the 2nd half. Appeared to be tripped on the edge of the Liverpool area, hits the deck, no foul given and with 2 Palace in close proximity reaches out and grabs the ball. Free kick awarded to Palace, prompting furious protests from Palace players. Neil Swarbrick spoke to Henderson, but Mane escaped without even a talking to. Klopp subbed him shortly afterwards.

 

[Padfoot]

Swarbrick bottled the 2 clear reds.....

Liverpool GK....no attempt to play the ball....late...and should’ve gone for it.

Mane....deliberate handball.....stopped a promising attack....should’ve been a 2nd yellow....

 

[RustyRef]

Got both penalty shouts right for me. Mane was clipped, but that didn't take him down and rather he then threw himself into an exaggerated dive.

For the Mane handball, I don't necessarily think that was a mandatory caution, and I'm fed up of so called expert pundits saying that it was deliberate so has to be a caution. It has to be deliberate to even be a foul, that doesn't mean it has to be a caution. I do agree it broke up a promising attack, equally though I think, like Mane did, that he was fouled before the handling, and the sensible refereeing decision here would have been to give Liverpool a free kick.

 

[alexgr]

@RustyRef Completely agree, that's what grinds my gears the most. Steve McManaman, commentating on yesterday's City game, said of a 6th minute handball on the halfway line "He's lucky not to be booked for a deliberate handball". Winds me up to no end.

Definitely right on the Mane clip. There's a clip, sure, but it doesn't alter his movement, it isn't a trip. Rightly booked for simulation.

Regarding the other penalty, I'm not sure Karius has done much there to warrant a red. It's clearly a penalty but I don't think there's excessive force there, it's the consequence of two players going for the ball. Certainly comes under reckless, not quite convinced it's excessive force yet (although can certainly see the argument for it).

 

[Tealeaf]

Mane handball - possibly but the histrionics after were clear dissent. There could have been no argument had he gone.

 

[Andrew.Rainsbury]

For me -Mane’s theatrics have cost him the yellow... and not the pen... one wonders if var would have called the first clip ... thinking back to the young England debutee lad.
Just playing devils advocate... or is that VARs advocate? Lol

 

[QuaverRef]

Mane handball - possibly but the histrionics after were clear dissent. There could have been no argument had he gone.

Including Cabaye showing the imaginary card.

 

[RobOda]

For me -Mane’s theatrics have cost him the yellow... and not the pen... one wonders if var would have called the first clip ... thinking back to the young England debutee lad.
Just playing devils advocate... or is that VARs advocate? Lol

I guess so?

For me though, that wasn't a foul. Sure, there's contact, but it seemed to in no way affect him. He took a good while before he suddenly got assassinated by the resident sniper, and looked to be perfectly capable of doing some actual damage with the play.

Course, maybe in the future when all such contact is penalised I may have to review my view on that.

 

[QuaverRef]

I guess so?

For me though, that wasn't a foul. Sure, there's contact, but it seemed to in no way affect him. He took a good while before he suddenly got assassinated by the resident sniper, and looked to be perfectly capable of doing some actual damage with the play.

Course, maybe in the future when all such contact is penalised I may have to review my view on that.

If such contact is ever deemed a foul god help us all!

 

[bloovee]

@RustyRef Completely agree, that's what grinds my gears the most. Steve McManaman, commentating on yesterday's City game, said of a 6th minute handball on the halfway line "He's lucky not to be booked for a deliberate handball". Winds me up to no end.

Definitely right on the Mane clip. There's a clip, sure, but it doesn't alter his movement, it isn't a trip. Rightly booked for simulation.

Regarding the other penalty, I'm not sure Karius has done much there to warrant a red. It's clearly a penalty but I don't think there's excessive force there, it's the consequence of two players going for the ball. Certainly comes under reckless, not quite convinced it's excessive force yet (although can certainly see the argument for it).

Red card for Karius for DOGSO surely...

 

[cwyeary]

Red card for Karius for DOGSO surely...

He mistimed the challenge and from the looks of it even slowed down at the end to limit the force of the contact. Let's not overthink this. It's a PK and yellow.

 

[Mooseybaby]

Never a DOGSO for me. Zaha had already clipped the ball over Karius and wide of the goal, Karius wiping out Zaha was a result of him rushing out to close the angle/block the shot, but seriously doubt Zaha would have caught up with the ball and kept it in play had even if he had not been taken out.

 

[GraemeS]

Never a DOGSO for me. Zaha had already clipped the ball over Karius and wide of the goal, Karius wiping out Zaha was a result of him rushing out to close the angle/block the shot, but seriously doubt Zaha would have caught up with the ball and kept it in play had even if he had not been taken out.

Exactly right, the ball was long gone. I'm not sure that would have even been red under the old laws, let alone now where a keeper throwing himself vaguely towards the ball is usually enough to downgrade to yellow.

 

[bester]

For me -Mane’s theatrics have cost him the yellow... and not the pen... one wonders if var would have called the first clip ... thinking back to the young England debutee lad.
Just playing devils advocate... or is that VARs advocate? Lol

There's no chance a penalty would have been awarded if he'd stayed on his feet. Players have the mentality that any contact gives them a right to go down, on the flipside EPL referees seem to think that a player has to go down to win a penalty. Need to strike a balance somewhere between those two extremes.

 

[alexgr]

There's no chance a penalty would have been awarded if he'd stayed on his feet. Players have the mentality that any contact gives them a right to go down, on the flipside EPL referees seem to think that a player has to go down to win a penalty. Need to strike a balance somewhere between those two extremes.

Exactly this. The problem is the contact didn't impede Mane at all. He could quite have easily carried on with his movement, but saw the chance to cheat and was duly punished for it.

 

[Tino Best]

If you listen to ex footballers they all say if you feel contact in the box you have the right to go down. So Mane had the the right to go down. The ref makes the call whether the contact was just contact, careless, reckless, etc and will make decisions based on this. So Mane went down due to contact. The ref saw the incident and decided that there was simulation. I don't think anybody can deny this, as he didn't go down imediatley. There for a YC for Mane. Another ref on another day may have viewed things differently bu t as a Liverpool supporter I think there was contact but thats all it was and the delayed over exagerated reaction was worthy of a YC.
Karrius, he had every right to go for the ball missed and took out Zaha. Penalty YC no debate.
The second Mane incident. Mane was obviously fouled and was expecting the free kick, so he reacted instinctively. I think the ref might have realised he may have made a bit of a rick so didn't caution. Maybe a bit of common sense to deal with a situation which was caused by a mistake. It would have been a soft second yellow but if the ref thought it was stopping a promising attack then so be it. Cabaye should have been booked for brandishing a pretend yellow. If I can do it at grass roots level why can't top refs? We all know what happens on MOTD is reflected the next morning on our pitches.