Criteria once Promoted

[Redref34]

Hi all

I know there has been multiple posts regarding the criteria for promotion etc..

What I am asking here, in order to decide if I can commit to the next level is, What is the Criteria when you reach level 4 in order to remain at level 4?

I currently referee mainly at County Level, with the occasional Step 5 AR appointment. If I got promoted to level 4, would I be expected to make myself available at the highest possible level (Step 5/6) or could I still referee at county level?

Would o be expected to referee midweek or could I close all midweek games?

How many weekends a month would I be expected to referee or could I not referee in a month if I had personal commitments and was busy? Consequently, what’s the minimum sound of games a season required to complete in a season?

Thank you

 

[Runner Ref]

Hi all

I know there has been multiple posts regarding the criteria for promotion etc..

What I am asking here, in order to decide if I can commit to the next level is, What is the Criteria when you reach level 4 in order to remain at level 4?

I currently referee mainly at County Level, with the occasional Step 5 AR appointment. If I got promoted to level 4, would I be expected to make myself available at the highest possible level (Step 5/6) or could I still referee at county level?

Would o be expected to referee midweek or could I close all midweek games?

How many weekends a month would I be expected to referee or could I not referee in a month if I had personal commitments and was busy? Consequently, what’s the minimum sound of games a season required to complete in a season?

Thank you

It’s been a few years since I came off, but for me it was……

When you become L4, you in essence become an FA referee rather than a County FA referee. So if you were to close your date with the FA to take a county league game, it wouldn’t go too well for you.

Weekends; most Saturdays (not all)

Midweek- we were told to be available for a minimum 2 midweek games a month

Minimum amount of games is hard as L4 tends to be quite bottled necked, so you’ll get games when you get them. Don’t be surprised if you get more AR games than referee. Especially in first season.

 

[Redref34]

It’s been a few years since I came off, but for me it was……

When you become L4, you in essence become an FA referee rather than a County FA referee. So if you were to close your date with the FA to take a county league game, it wouldn’t go too well for you.

Weekends; most Saturdays (not all)

Midweek- we were told to be available for a minimum 2 midweek games a month

Thank you.

So let’s say, I only referee 15 games in the season and close all midweek games, I stand a risk of being demoted back to 5?

 

[Runner Ref]

Thank you.

So let’s say, I only referee 15 games in the season and close all midweek games, I stand a risk of being demoted back to 5?

I don’t know if the criteria has changed, the folk who are still active will know better than myself. But my main concern there would be the lack of midweek availability.

2 games a month isn’t much. You can literally just make yourself available for 2 days midweek in a month. So Tuesday 1st and Tuesday 8th

 

[Redref34]

Cool thanks.

I am up for the challenge and the commitment and am not looking to do as little as possible whilst at Level 4, o fully understand that it is a commitment and this is what I am trying to weigh up.

I currently do very few midweek but I do still get in 25-30 games a season at county level. I was wondering if I could maintain this at level 4 and this would be acceptable.

 

[JamesL]

Thank you.

So let’s say, I only referee 15 games in the season and close all midweek games, I stand a risk of being demoted back to 5?

10 games is the minimum to be invited for a promotion assessment day .
15 to be eligible for automatic promotion..

I don't think there is a set amount it certainly can't be done on games. I only did 9 games last season which was not reflective of my availability and lost a lot of games to weather.

 

[Runner Ref]

Cool thanks.

I am up for the challenge and the commitment and am not looking to do as little as possible whilst at Level 4, o fully understand that it is a commitment and this is what I am trying to weigh up.

I currently do very few midweek but I do still get in 25-30 games a season at county level. I was wondering if I could maintain this at level 4 and this would be acceptable.

When it comes to number of games, you lose control of this as they’re nationally appointed. You may only referee 7 games in an entire season. But as long as you had made yourself available, you can’t do much more.

If you have free week you could pick up a game in a local league by all means, but you would need to make sure you close this on MOAS. Only issue doing this is that you may have picked up a last minute appointment than you’ll now miss out on.

I was lucky that I got on great with my local county appointments officer. If I was free and wanted a game, I’d text him on the day. More often that not, there was a game going or an observation to do.

 

[Redref34]

Yeh. It’s a catch 22 for me really, I really want to go for promotion to 4 but I really enjoy refereeing at County Level. It’s challenging enough, a good match day experience and I get a game every single week without fail.

Why would I want to go through promotion to 4 to potentially get one game a month?

 

[RustyRef]

You are expected to be available most Saturdays and midweeks. They will be sensible when job situations restrict that availability, but I very much doubt that understanding would apply to being unavailable because you were refereeing lower level games. Certainly I know of one L4 who was demoted because The FA found out he was regularly refereeing grass roots games on dates he had closed with them.

It comes down to the order of precedence. Technically speaking if you close a date you are closing it for all football, so if you closed a date where you could have had a step 3/4 line, step 5 middle, FA appointment, etc, you really shouldn't be refereeing at a lower level on those dates. If you take a lower level game and the FA or step 5 league then come calling for you the 4 day rule applies, but, unless things have changed since my time, you wouldn't be earning any credits by turning down a senior game because you have a grass roots game in less than 4 day's time.

 

[Runner Ref]

Yeh. It’s a catch 22 for me really, I really want to go for promotion to 4 but I really enjoy refereeing at County Level. It’s challenging enough, a good match day experience and I get a game every single week without fail.

Why would I want to go through promotion to 4 to potentially get one game a month?

That’s a very fair point, and this is where you get to a bit of a crossroads. If you want to consistently referee, L4 may not be the path for you. But if you want to see where you could end up, then it is.

L4 is weird in that you will referee far less games, but your time and commitment goes up (training events and the fact that you can’t turn up 10 mins before kick off!)

 

[Redref34]

You are expected to be available most Saturdays and midweeks. They will be sensible when job situations restrict that availability, but I very much doubt that understanding would apply to being unavailable because you were refereeing lower level games. Certainly I know of one L4 who was demoted because The FA found out he was regularly refereeing grass roots games on dates he had closed with them.

It comes down to the order of precedence. Technically speaking if you close a date you are closing it for all football, so if you closed a date where you could have had a step 3/4 line, step 5 middle, FA appointment, etc, you really shouldn't be refereeing at a lower level on those dates. If you take a lower level game and the FA or step 5 league then come calling for you the 4 day rule applies, but, unless things have changed since my time, you wouldn't be earning any credits by turning down a senior game because you have a grass roots game in less than 4 day's time.

Fully understand and appreciate that thank you.

So let’s say for the month I leave all my Saturday’s open and only get one appointment. I can’t then take some games to fill those Saturday’s up, I have to wait with them open to see if I get appointed and if I don’t then I just have a free weekend? Seems bonkers to me and very backward when some leagues suffer a shortage of referees.

 

[Runner Ref]

Fully understand and appreciate that thank you.

So let’s say for the month I leave all my Saturday’s open and only get one appointment. I can’t then take some games to fill those Saturday’s up, I have to wait with them open to see if I get appointed and if I don’t then I just have a free weekend? Seems bonkers to me and very backward when some leagues suffer a shortage of referees.

This is where you need to get a bit lucky with your local appointments officer. As I say, I was lucky in that I could text him on the day and get a game. There was 1 occasion where I did this, then 20 mins later got a call from L4 appointments officer to give me a very last minute cry off. My local appointments officer knew this was always a possibility so had no issue.

But this comes down to your relationship with them.

But I’d be surprised if you only get 1 game a month. Remember that you’ll be lining as well. In my first year, most of my weeks would be x1 referee and x3 AR.

 

[RustyRef]

Fully understand and appreciate that thank you.

So let’s say for the month I leave all my Saturday’s open and only get one appointment. I can’t then take some games to fill those Saturday’s up, I have to wait with them open to see if I get appointed and if I don’t then I just have a free weekend? Seems bonkers to me and very backward when some leagues suffer a shortage of referees.

Exactly as @Runner Ref has said. You can absolutely take lower level games, but you might have to give them back if you get given a senior appointment. This is non-negotiable if that senior appointment is made within 4 days of the game, it automatically takes priority. If less than that the lower competition technically have to "release" you to take the senior game, but in reality the expectation is they will have to release you unless it is a few hours before.

I didn't have many free Saturdays as a L3/4, but I often took games with local leagues when I did. But it was on the understanding with the appointments officers of those leagues that they could lose me if the FA or supply league came calling.

I would frequently get phone calls from the FA that started with "what are you doing tonight / this afternoon", and whatever my reply was the answer would be "not any more, you are going to xxx". Remember one fairly late on a Friday night, I was in a pub in Edinburgh waiting to get the sleeper back to Euston. They wanted me to go to Eastleigh for a 3pm the following day, I said I was happy to but they'd have to accept the risk that if anything happened to the train journey I'd be screwed (the date was closed but they were desperate).

 

[Redref34]

Our local Senior AO has literally just sent out a message saying please do NOT open dates with more than one league, he is obviously experiencing this himself.

Again, what a strange system where an experienced referee could be without a fixture on a Saturday just because they have to wait around to see if they might get an appointment, you would think everyone would want to work together a bit more to improve national coverage. What do I know!

 

[Runner Ref]

Our local Senior AO has literally just sent out a message saying please do NOT open dates with more than one league, he is obviously experiencing this himself.

Again, what a strange system where an experienced referee could be without a fixture on a Saturday just because they have to wait around to see if they might get an appointment, you would think everyone would want to work together a bit more to improve national coverage. What do I know!

This is where L4 becomes a completely different kettle of fish. Once you get there, you are in essence a semi-professional referee.

Can you imagine if a Contrib/Supply league game went without a relevant level official because they were refereeing the dog & duck vs red lion?

As I said earlier, you become National rather than County/regional. So you need to be prepared for a last minute call up and a fair drive. As @RustyRef mentioned when he name dropped Eastleigh

 

[Kent Ref]

Our local Senior AO has literally just sent out a message saying please do NOT open dates with more than one league, he is obviously experiencing this himself.

Again, what a strange system where an experienced referee could be without a fixture on a Saturday just because they have to wait around to see if they might get an appointment, you would think everyone would want to work together a bit more to improve national coverage. What do I know!

I think your sentiments are correct but stakeholders look after themselves first. Some of these demands look unreasonable.

 

[RustyRef]

I think your sentiments are correct but stakeholders look after themselves first. Some of these demands look unreasonable.

Don't think it is unreasonable, rather just the way of life. The most important things get the highest priority, the authorities can't have a situation where a step 3 game in front of 300 paying spectators doesn't have 3 officials whilst at the same time there is a referee for the Dog & Duck vs the Frog & Parrot in Division 6 of the local league with one man and his dog watching.

Once you sign up for level 4 you effectively make yourself available to the FA and step 5 leagues. If you want to predominantly referee grass roots football don't go for L4, it really is that binary.

 

[JA1989]

I think this was a similar dilemma to where I was at too @Redref34

I'm on 5-4 and attending one of the upcoming CPD events which I believe entails the expectations of what happens at L4 vs L5.

Ultimately giving 5-4 pathway a go to see where I'm at, get the feedback from the 4x observations and if I'm good enough and hit the mark great, if I'm not then I've given it a good go.

Travel wise, I know that it's going to be a bigger commitment than County League / "Step 7" but already AR at Step 5/6 with some games being 1hr+ travel time.

 

[JamesL]

I think this was a similar dilemma to where I was at too @Redref34

I'm on 5-4 and attending one of the upcoming CPD events which I believe entails the expectations of what happens at L4 vs L5.

Ultimately giving 5-4 pathway a go to see where I'm at, get the feedback from the 4x observations and if I'm good enough and hit the mark great, if I'm not then I've given it a good go.

Travel wise, I know that it's going to be a bigger commitment than County League / "Step 7" but already AR at Step 5/6 with some games being 1hr+ travel time.

And less frequently even longer.

Recently had 2 c.200 mile round trips 2 hours each way with local assistants.

Have been as long as 3 hrs as an L4AR.

Obviously geography plays a massive part in the travel time and expectations.

 

[Russell Jones]

And less frequently even longer.

Recently had 2 c.200 mile round trips 2 hours each way with local assistants.

Have been as long as 3 hrs as an L4AR.

Obviously geography plays a massive part in the travel time and expectations.

As you say geography is key. Across most of the South East, unusual for Level 4’s to be sent more than 50 miles away. Plenty of teams to choose from at all the Steps!

One other L4 benefit is the opportunity to add a temporary location. If you happen to have reason to be elsewhere (holiday, visiting friends or family etc) then simply update your location and you can easily end up reffing new teams at new grounds .. a pleasant change!