Club Lineman

[Egg man]

During my game at the weekend I gave clear instructions to both the club linesman's before KO. Asking them to be clear with there signals for goal kicks, throw-in , corner's and for offsides and if they are unsure of any decision to keep the flag in the middle of there body pointing the ground make eye contact with me and follow my decision. I also asked them to keep the flag up for offside until i have clearly seen them or given them a signal that i was going to play on.

Now here the incident.

A long ball was played from the attacking team over the defending team back line the forward was quickly on to it and scored a goal. As the ball was turn over quickly from defence to attack i was unable to see the position of the now attacking forward. I took a glance at the lineman who hesitated with the flag but did not fully put up and keep the flag down it wasn't until his team mates on the field screaming for offside he was saying I put my flag up ref. I reminded him of my clear instruction before the game to hold his flag up high for off sides until I have clearly seen him or indicated I was happy to play on. The lineman did not argue but claimed he did put his flag but I felt he was only saying this after pressure from his team mates and management team

The goal was awarded and defending team also had a player sent to sin Bin as he continued to argue my decision not to award a offside and allow the goal.

What I'm asking is was I right to over rule the club lineman?

 

[Anubis]

During my game at the weekend I gave clear instructions to both the club linesman's before KO. Asking them to be clear with there signals for goal kicks, throw-in , corner's and for offsides and if they are unsure of any decision to keep the flag in the middle of there body pointing the ground make eye contact with me and follow my decision. I also asked them to keep the flag up for offside until i have clearly seen them or given them a signal that i was going to play on.

Now here the incident.

A long ball was played from the attacking team over the defending team back line the forward was quickly on to it and scored a goal. As the ball was turn over quickly from defence to attack i was unable to see the position of the now attacking forward. I took a glance at the lineman who hesitated with the flag but did not fully put up and keep the flag down it wasn't until his team mates on the field screaming for offside he was saying I put my flag up ref. I reminded him of my clear instruction before the game to hold his flag up high for off sides until I have clearly seen him or indicated I was happy to play on. The lineman did not argue but claimed he did put his flag but I felt he was only saying this after pressure from his team mates and management team

The goal was awarded and defending team also had a player sent to sin Bin as he continued to argue my decision not to award a offside and allow the goal.

What I'm asking is was I right to over rule the club lineman?

was it onside or offside?

 

[markref]

If you think the player is onside then you're within your rights to over-rule. Club linesmen can sometimes be very good or very bad, but are usually somewhere in between. Most are ok but don't want to be there. Occasionally they cheat.

When you're first using a club linesman then it's worth keeping an eye on them to find out how useful they are before there are any difficult decisions to be made. If you've had a couple of offsides and he's given the right decisions then you know he's ok. That means then when you have a more difficult decision like this one - and you will always get caught out of position by long balls - then it helps to work out whether you should over-rule or not. For example, if with every offside he's given he's put the flag straight up quickly (and club linos will often be seriously quick with the flag, especially when you don't want it) then if you get a decision like this and he's hesitant or doesn't put the flag up until his team scream at him then it can help to work out if he's unsure or just going with his team's shouts.

As a piece of advice, I wouldn't try to ask too much of club linesmen. Really it's ball in and out of play and anything else is a bonus.

If you over-rule try to make sure your position sells your decision, so make an extra effort to get into a position where you could have credibly given the decision yourself. If you're over-ruling but are 50 yards behind play then players will moan, but if you've run a long way then you can con them into thinking you had a better position and over-ruled because you were sure he was wrong, rather than you weren't sure he was right.

Using field markings can help - so if the player looks closer to the half way line / centre circle / penalty area then this can help make a decision. It's harder when there's a long distance between them and players are rarely stationary but this can help.
If you believe he's wrong there is nothing wrong in over-ruling, but try to back it up, for example "from my position when the ball was played he was nearer half way than the defender" rather than "I didn't think the lino was sure so I over-ruled"

 

[Max2]

Your club linos can assist not insist. I'm amazed just how godawful many of them are... like how have they never watched an AR before?

 

[Egg man]

If you think the player is onside then you're within your rights to over-rule. Club linesmen can sometimes be very good or very bad, but are usually somewhere in between. Most are ok but don't want to be there. Occasionally they cheat.

When you're first using a club linesman then it's worth keeping an eye on them to find out how useful they are before there are any difficult decisions to be made. If you've had a couple of offsides and he's given the right decisions then you know he's ok. That means then when you have a more difficult decision like this one - and you will always get caught out of position by long balls - then it helps to work out whether you should over-rule or not. For example, if with every offside he's given he's put the flag straight up quickly (and club linos will often be seriously quick with the flag, especially when you don't want it) then if you get a decision like this and he's hesitant or doesn't put the flag up until his team scream at him then it can help to work out if he's unsure or just going with his team's shouts.

As a piece of advice, I wouldn't try to ask too much of club linesmen. Really it's ball in and out of play and anything else is a bonus.

If you over-rule try to make sure your position sells your decision, so make an extra effort to get into a position where you could have credibly given the decision yourself. If you're over-ruling but are 50 yards behind play then players will moan, but if you've run a long way then you can con them into thinking you had a better position and over-ruled because you were sure he was wrong, rather than you weren't sure he was right.

Using field markings can help - so if the player looks closer to the half way line / centre circle / penalty area then this can help make a decision. It's harder when there's a long distance between them and players are rarely stationary but this can help.
If you believe he's wrong there is nothing wrong in over-ruling, but try to back it up, for example "from my position when the ball was played he was nearer half way than the defender" rather than "I didn't think the lino was sure so I over-ruled"

I agree with all the above. To be honest I wasn't sure on the forwards starting position but he look to me to have come from a onside position from where he was on the field
. My point was when I look over to lineman to see if there was a offside he hesitated keep his flag down and keep running with play it was only after the goal was scored and his teammate shout for offside he was sheepishly saying he put his flag up.

I also felt that the lineman wasn't really watching the game and had made a few questionable decisions so felt happy with my decision. When question I say I believe forward was onside and there was no clear offside flag from your lineman. Most players Shrugged their shoulders but one just keep going hence the sin bin.

 

[OIREF!]

Your club linos can assist not insist. I'm amazed just how godawful many of them are... like how have they never watched an AR before?

I had a very attentive CAR this past week although in my games the involvement is limited to ball in/out of play. Every time I had cause to look towards him he either had the flag up or gave an indication that the ball was still in play. I don't think his bench or players agreed with his every decision as he got more hassle than I did during the game. And, no, he wasn't a closet referee, just said if he was going to do the job he was going to do it properly.