A&H

Clarification of change to Law 15

G

Gary F

New Member
"A player must stand to take a throw-in (kneeling, sitting etc., not permitted"
What about a player crouching? In my game yesterday a player crouched and threw the ball in to a teammate who was standing a metre or so away from him in order that the receiving player could control the ball far easier. The thrower did not kneel or sit. Anybody care to offer an opinion of whether this will be deemed a foul throw when the change comes into effect?
 
The Referee Store
To me, "standing" refers to somebody being on their feet - nothing more. It doesn't say your knees can't be bent. Once you start getting into that area it's too grey. What exactly constitutes a "crouch?" If it says no kneeling or sitting then thats all it means. Just my tuppence worth ...
 
Kes said:
To me, "standing" refers to somebody being on their feet - nothing more. It doesn't say your knees can't be bent. Once you start getting into that area it's too grey. What exactly constitutes a "crouch?" If it says no kneeling or sitting then thats all it means. Just my tuppence worth ...
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Seriously? Can't believe I'm having to do this but:

to stand = to have or maintain an upright position, supported by one's feet.
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Crouching is clearly not an upright position. Nor is kneeling, sitting, or anything else covered by the 'etc.' that is clearly not standing. Why are we looking for trouble here? It's blatantly obvious what standing is and what it isn't.
 
alexgr said:
Seriously? Can't believe I'm having to do this but:



Crouching is clearly not an upright position. Nor is kneeling, sitting, or anything else covered by the 'etc.' that is clearly not standing. Why are we looking for trouble here? It's blatantly obvious what standing is and what it isn't.
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All too often the ambiguity issue rears it's head in these matters. You've only got to go back and look at the differing opinions voiced on here about what does or doesn't constitute a "foul throw" in previous threads on the subject to see that.

Sure, I get the dictionary definition of the verb. I only posted what I did in order to generate discussion in all fairness, but I'd ask you in response to state what constitutes a "crouch". Are we saying that unless the person taking the throw is completely upright ie no bending at the waist at all then it's a foul throw?

Exactly what gain or advantage would a player achieve by "crouching" to take a throw? If you stand with both feet placed firmly on the ground and bend in order to grab your ankles and stretch those hamstrings for example (not that you'd do it for a throw-in obviously :D ) are you not still standing?

It may be "blatantly obvious" to you what standing means in relation to taking a throw but like I said, to me, if you're on your feet, you're standing. Sitting and kneeling is blatantly obviously something you don't do on your feet. ;)
 
@Kes Agree to an extent - the LOTG is a horribly-written document and you don't have to have had any involvement with law to see this.

Having said that, I think the change emphasises what is key - we all know what standing is. It is still awfully-written (how many legal documents have "etc."written in them so we can just assume what the author intended) but I think it's pretty clear here what we're meant to do.
 
alexgr said:
@Kes Agree to an extent - the LOTG is a horribly-written document and you don't have to have had any involvement with law to see this.

Having said that, I think the change emphasises what is key - we all know what standing is. It is still awfully-written (how many legal documents have "etc."written in them so we can just assume what the author intended) but I think it's pretty clear here what we're meant to do.
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Maybe. Lol.

I just like discussing Law 15 in particular because it's such a badly worded Law for practically the only element that involves a degree of technical conformity on the part of the player and moreover, doesn't involve kicking the ball. Nowhere in the book does it describe how a football should be kicked or headed. It's only one Law and action. You'd think it'd be specific enough to rule out any degree of ambiguity or misinterpretation on the part of players/coaches and referees alike but alas ..... :rolleyes: :)
 
Kes said:
To me, "standing" refers to somebody being on their feet - nothing more. ...
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Well, you're simply wrong on that. There's not much more to add to that one. The definition of 'stand' has been provided.
And if you think that crouching is a nonexistent word or is a synonym for standing then I'll buy you a dictionary myself!!!
 
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CapnBloodbeard said:
Well, you're simply wrong on that. There's not much more to add to that one. The definition of 'stand' has been provided.
And if you think that crouching is a nonexistent word or is a synonym for standing then I'll buy you a dictionary myself!!!
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Stop talking pants Capn. My arguments are coherent and contextual.

An Aussie buying an Englishman a dictionary?? Why there could be no greater insult Sir.

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits. Away with you ..... :p :D
 
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I would not classify any of the above as 'stand' at the time of the delivery.

I can see this change creating more problems than it solves. I am reletively sure it is not the intent of the law to ban taking a run up or walk up before a throw in (dragging the back foot on the ground). It is well within football expectations. But this change is going to make many referees penalising it.
 
There is a very funny one on YouTube somewhere of someone standing close to one of these throws and gets absolutely totaled. I don’t think the thrower did anything wrong but it’s a bad place to stand!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
There is a very funny one on YouTube somewhere of someone standing close to one of these throws and gets absolutely totaled. I don’t think the thrower did anything wrong but it’s a bad place to stand!
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I know the one you mean - I think it may have directly contributed to the introduction of the 2 metre rule?
 
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