The Ref Stop

Cheating

Big Cat

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
I no longer watch much ''top level" football, partly because i'm a Newcastle fan, but mainly because cheating is endemic in the game. Presumably to protect the image of the game, IFAB generally term this USB, but certain offences are nothing short of cheating. What would football stand to lose if Raheem Sterling had been dismissed for cheating against against Nigeria?
 
The Ref Stop
I have long said that simulation be replaced, with the word, cheating
Some players class simulation as trendy. If it was in black and white that its cheating, maybe, just maybe, it might make it less glam
Should it be a red? Very possibly. If stopping a team scoring by handling ball on line is a red and pk, then logically it follows that diving in an attempt to win a pk should be a red. Only the difficulty in calling a dive can be preventing a law change.
 
While ever there is money, contracts, sponsorship, medals, whatever, man will always find an angle to get an advantage, whether it be an hopeful appeal for a throw in or dive in the box, anything that gets an advantage is fair game. At the small end, it’s gamesmanship, at the far end it’s blatant cheating. It’s coached so let’s not kid ourselves that it’s accidental. Should bans be longer for gamesmanship, for me, no, should bans be longer for the violence stuff yes. Should a player who wilfully threatens a players career in a sludge tackle have a longer ban, yes... it would lessen the threat tomorrow! Should we advance a decision 10 yards closer to goal for serious dissent, yes, and if that went into the box then it’s an automatic penalty.... job sorted! Fight fire with fire!
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
I have long said that simulation be replaced, with the word, cheating
Some players class simulation as trendy. If it was in black and white that its cheating, maybe, just maybe, it might make it less glam
Should it be a red? Very possibly. If stopping a team scoring by handling ball on line is a red and pk, then logically it follows that diving in an attempt to win a pk should be a red. Only the difficulty in calling a dive can be preventing a law change.
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And there lie the problem.
 
Well its not a huge problem, a good season zero tolerance purge on anything that looks like a dive would be a start
The tackle from behind was as good as erridicated after a few months of hard work. Rather than take the chance such tackle might be dealt with a red card, players now know the consequence of a rash challenge
If, say, Sterling went out on the pitch knowing any sign of a dive and he risked a red, it just might make him think twice about doing it

At the moment its nearly celebrated, winning a pk for your team. If the same action resulted in your team going down to ten, you might not be so popular

The retrospective action on diving is not so effective, as by then the team have prob scored the winning pk on the day, three points in bag, player be happy to get a match ban, esp if he carrying an injury or its international week the next week or so on
 
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The difference is that a tackle from behind is easy to spot, the same can't be said of simulation, diving, cheating, or whatever you want to call it. There are plenty of cases where players have been incorrectly cautioned for simulation, and even more cases where it hasn't been punished as the officials couldn't be sure.

If it became a red card I would predict that more players would get away with it as referees would be scared to punish all but the most obvious of dives.
 
I think the law re simulation is fine as it stands now. The solution is for FA(s) to grow a pair and impose serious retrospective punishment (several weeks suspension) for it no matter whether it effected a goal or the result.

Get rid of it in the televised games and it will slowly disappear in the lower level. But I don't see that happening as football is business now and to make money, you need your stars on the field.
 
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one said:
I think the law re simulation is fine as it stands now. The solution is for FA(s) to grow a pair and impose serious retrospective punishment (several weeks suspension) for it no matter whether it effected a goal or the result.
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This is the solution for me. Slow motion replays over and over can definitively decide whether it was a dive or not. Ban divers for 3/4 games retrospectively. At the moment they have little to lose, referees have to be 100% sure to punish them on the field and they know the FA won't do anything off it.

Last minute of the game and we need a goal to win, should I dive? Absolutely, worst I can get is a yellow...
 
Cheating is exponentially more frequent towards the very top of the game. Champions League etc
Surprisingly, it tapers off very quickly through the lower reaches the Premiere League and is not really a problem below that. By the time you get down past Supply Leagues and into Grass Roots, the problem barely exists at all. The reason being, a player would likely be assaulted for doing it, with a mass brawl a probable consequence. So, I don't think most of us will ever have to worry about policing such a rule, unless the football society continues in decline with players and kids copying their idols
When Kilnsmann introduced us to the more blatant art of cheating, there was a bit of consternation. When he responded by incorporating diving into his goal celebration, he was lauded as a showman. Football's global audience is ever increasing and it worries me that cheating is part of the entertainment. Cheats would be instantly vilified in any other sport, not worshiped. Maybe i'm old fashioned, but i don't understand the attraction of any sport in which cheating is so normal
 
Big Cat said:
Cheating is exponentially more frequent towards the very top of the game. Champions League etc
Surprisingly, it tapers off very quickly through the lower reaches the Premiere League and is not really a problem below that. By the time you get down past Supply Leagues and into Grass Roots, the problem barely exists at all. The reason being, a player would likely be assaulted for doing it, with a mass brawl a probable consequence. So, I don't think most of us will ever have to worry about policing such a rule, unless the football society continues in decline with players and kids copying their idols
When Kilnsmann introduced us to the more blatant art of cheating, there was a bit of consternation. When he responded by incorporating diving into his goal celebration, he was lauded as a showman. Football's global audience is ever increasing and it worries me that cheating is part of the entertainment. Cheats would be instantly vilified in any other sport, not worshiped. Maybe i'm old fashioned, but i don't understand the attraction of any sport in which cheating is so normal
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Don’t kid yourself I’ve had it in many games in my short stint at being a ref.
 
Big Cat said:
Not in my experience, although I fear it's only a matter of time before i'm agreeing with you
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It doesn’t make our job any easier that’s for sure, especially if your not right up with play, it can be tricky to distinguish.

The other problem I’ve found is when I wave off an appeal or ping a player for diving the opposition think it’s an invite from me to square up to the cheats and give them a load of verbal.
 
Big Cat said:
Not in my experience, although I fear it's only a matter of time before i'm agreeing with you
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I agree, in 20 years of refereeing, including 5 years at each of L4 and L3, I can count the number of cautions I've given for simulation on one hand. Nor can I really remember any occasions of players moaning about simulation by an opponent when I may have missed it.
 
True, cheating is rare at parks level, a few minor dives but they get laughed at because its quite a skill to make it look realistic...Appeals for stuff that isn't yours is pretty endemic but I suppose if you don't ask you don't get!!!
 
RustyRef said:
I agree, in 20 years of refereeing, including 5 years at each of L4 and L3, I can count the number of cautions I've given for simulation on one hand. Nor can I really remember any occasions of players moaning about simulation by an opponent when I may have missed it.
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Exactly as i see it
Sheffields Finest said:
True, cheating is rare at parks level, a few minor dives but they get laughed at because its quite a skill to make it look realistic...Appeals for stuff that isn't yours is pretty endemic but I suppose if you don't ask you don't get!!!
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Also agree. Top level cheating takes a top level cheat. Whilst most people are watching Champions League on Wednesday nights, I'm tuned into the Football League and it's apparent that the players entertaining me & the missus are not very adept at cheating
 
Mintyref said:
The very few I saw were quite theatrical. One or two in the opposition may have appealed but mostly it was hoots of derision from all sides!
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At grass roots this is usually the case, everybody, ref included has a wry smile and we get on with the game
 
Sheffields Finest said:
While ever there is money, contracts, sponsorship, medals, whatever, man will always find an angle to get an advantage, whether it be an hopeful appeal for a throw in or dive in the box, anything that gets an advantage is fair game. At the small end, it’s gamesmanship, at the far end it’s blatant cheating.
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This. /\ /\ /\ /\ All day long.

Sadly, football culture is to cheat. It's firmly entrenched in pretty much all aspects of the game from top international to grass roots youth level. With stakes (financial) high at the top it's always going to be the case. It's even slowly making it's way into Rugby Union now I notice as well, especially the "appealing to the referee" side of things. Money and sport will always produce the same thing. It just is.
 
Peter Grove said:
Give me a break! So it's all the fault of the 'dirty foreigners' is it? Plenty of English players practised the art of diving long before Klinsmann showed up .
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That's not what he said. Not at all. You said it Peter.

Klinsmann, as well as being an exceptional (IMO) finisher and play maker was noted moreover for his impact on the English game being one where he was notorious for his ability to fool referees by "diving". Fact. Just because he's foreign doesn't make it not a fact. :rolleyes:
 
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