A&H

Celebrating With Fans...

RustyRef said:
It doesn't matter how you get into the crowd, the premise remains the same in that at levels where there is a crowd there is a risk of a crush as people move to celebrate with the player.
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I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you can afford to be quite so dogmatic about it. It may well be true that in the majority of cases this would be excessive, unsafe and worthy of a caution - but not necessarily.

Without wanting to sound too tautological, if something is not listed as a mandatory caution, it's not a mandatory caution. There was a fairly good example recently that was discussed on at least one refereeing site (it might even have been this one, though I'm not 100% sure) where a player scored a goal running in at full pelt to get on the end of a cross that was stood up to the far post. By the time he reached the ball, he was almost on the goal line and his momentum ineluctably took him over the end line and into the crowd (there was no perimeter fence and the relatively few fans that were there were standing just a couple of feet away from the pitch). While he was there and in the few seconds before he could extricate himself, some of the fans congratulated him and he acknowledged their appreciation.

So he had gone into the crowd after scoring and while there he had, in effect, celebrated the goal with the fans but the way he ended up there was totally accidental, there was nothing excessive about his or the crowd's celebrations, no rush, no crush, no safety issue and although I can't remember exactly, I believe the referee in this instance decided (quite justifiably, in my opinion) not to caution the player.

jofusref said:
and the players know its a card but they still do it clueless
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I really don't see how players could know this is automatically a caution, since as mentioned, it isn't listed as such - and as the example given above illustrates, it isn't necessarily the case.

Another example is when Marcus Rashford scored twice on his debut for Manchester United vs FC Midtjylland. On both occasions he went over to the crowd to celebrate but was not cautioned in either case. Whether you agree with referee Istvan Vad's judgement here or not (and I, personally, did) I somehow doubt that he was reprimanded by the UEFA match observer but once again it just serves to illustrate that this is not a mandatory caution and shows why players might be forgiven for believing that this will not always, and on every occasion, get them cautioned.
 
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Peter Grove said:
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you can afford to be quite so dogmatic about it. It may well be true that in the majority of cases this would be excessive, unsafe and worthy of a caution - but not necessarily.

Without wanting to sound too tautological, if something is not listed as a mandatory caution, it's not a mandatory caution. There was a fairly good example recently that was discussed on at least one refereeing site (it might even have been this one, though I'm not 100% sure) where a player scored a goal running in at full pelt to get on the end of a cross that was stood up to the far post. By the time he reached the ball, he was almost on the goal line and his momentum ineluctably took him over the end line and into the crowd (there was no perimeter fence and the relatively few fans that were there were standing just a couple of feet away from the pitch). While he was there and in the few seconds before he could extricate himself, some of the fans congratulated him and he acknowledged their appreciation.

So he had gone into the crowd after scoring and while there he had, in effect, celebrated the goal with the fans but the way he ended up there was totally accidental, there was nothing excessive about his or the crowd's celebrations, no rush, no crush, no safety issue and although I can't remember exactly, I believe the referee in this instance decided (quite justifiably, in my opinion) not to caution the player.



I really don't see how players could know this is automatically a caution, since as mentioned, it isn't listed as such - and as the example given above illustrates, it isn't necessarily the case.

Another example is when Marcus Rashford scored twice on his debut for Manchester United vs FC Midtjylland. On both occasions he went over to the crowd to celebrate but was not cautioned in either case. Whether you agree with referee Istvan Vad's judgement here or not (and I, personally, did) I somehow doubt that he was reprimanded by the UEFA match observer but once again it just serves to illustrate that this is not a mandatory caution and shows why players might be forgiven for believing that this will not always, and on every occasion, get them cautioned.
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i thought it was mandatory, and if it isnt it should be, and the accidental issue you mentioned is completly different
 
As one who has cautioned for this at parks level, not just the "grassroots" level which appears to start at Contributory League level as far as most people are concerned, I feel qualified to speak.

@RustyRef is correct. A conscious decision to leave the field and celebrate with an excited group of supporters is very different from an accidental fall over the hoardings and in with the spectators before being able to extricate himself.

As for the situation I faced, the player scored directly from a corner kick, ran off the field about 10 yards from the halfway line, hurdled the perimeter fence, up the steps into the stand (it was a cup final), took a seat next to fan and slurped from his beer before running back to the field. That was his first caution, his second came 20 minutes later when he decided to do a song and dance about a nothing free kick.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
As one who has cautioned for this at parks level, not just the "grassroots" level which appears to start at Contributory League level as far as most people are concerned, I feel qualified to speak.

@RustyRef is correct. A conscious decision to leave the field and celebrate with an excited group of supporters is very different from an accidental fall over the hoardings and in with the spectators before being able to extricate himself.

As for the situation I faced, the player scored directly from a corner kick, ran off the field about 10 yards from the halfway line, hurdled the perimeter fence, up the steps into the stand (it was a cup final), took a seat next to fan and slurped from his beer before running back to the field. That was his first caution, his second came 20 minutes later when he decided to do a song and dance about a nothing free kick.
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There are stands - I think you can justify the caution, although sounds like that was just delaying the restart!
 
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