Bre v Che

[ladbroke8745]

Watching this game, Michael Oliver has given a free kick (no card) against van Den Berg (Brentford) against Enzo who has gone down screaming loudly holding the front of his face as if he'd been punched by a boxer, yet replays show nothing happened.

Yet about 5-10 minutes earlier, Brentford have a corner where as its inbound, Chelsea player literally holds a Brentford player and drags to the floor - he's not even looking at the corner being taken. He has his back to play.
How can Michael Oliver and team not think this is a foul, a penalty?

Is it one that MO hasn't properly seen, and the usual "VAR don't tell MO what to do"?

It may not look like much but to me its holding in the area and not even wanting to play the ball.

 

[socal lurker]

Based solely on your description, a VAR hypothesis on the second is that there can be a tendency for VAR not to get involved on off ball fouls unless the ball was going to the player who was fouled.

 

[RustyRef]

Guess most of us will never know as it can't be broadcast live in the UK and doesn't sound like something that will make the highlights reel.

 

[ladbroke8745]

Guess most of us will never know as it can't be broadcast live in the UK and doesn't sound like something that will make the highlights reel.

I've asked for a copy of it from a friend of mine.
Hoping to get a clip.

 

[ladbroke8745]

My friend hasn't given me a copy of the video. But it's in the highlights offered by Brentford.

Here is a screenshot where you could just about make out James not even looking at the ball and holding Collins.



And it's roughly 1:27 in..
It literally is a quick snippet.

24K views · 1.6K reactions | Brentford 0 Chelsea 0 | Premier League Highlights | Both teams go close but our west London derby against Chelsea finishes all square ⚖️ | By Brentford FC | Facebook

Both teams go close but our west London derby against Chelsea finishes all square ⚖️

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[RustyRef]

First thing's first, it happens before the corner was taken, Collins and James are already on the floor at the time was kick was taken. So it certainly can't be a penalty.



Had the ball been in play I suspect they would use the phrases "mutual holding" or "not long enough". Let's face it, defenders face the attackers at pretty much every corner rather than look at the ball. You can see James's arms around Collins, but I would bet money on an angle from the other side showing Collins also holding James. There's also zero complaints from Colins which says a lot.

 

[ladbroke8745]

First thing's first, it happens before the corner was taken, Collins and James are already on the floor at the time was kick was taken. So it certainly can't be a penalty.

View attachment 8047

Had the ball been in play I suspect they would use the phrases "mutual holding" or "not long enough". Let's face it, defenders face the attackers at pretty much every corner rather than look at the ball. You can see James's arms around Collins, but I would bet money on an angle from the other side showing Collins also holding James. There's also zero complaints from Colins which says a lot.

This would have also been the third instance by the way of James holding him.
MO had already warned James twice.
Collins did actually complain to MO after the ball went out.

 

[RustyRef]

This would have also been the third instance by the way of James holding him.
MO had already warned James twice.
Collins did actually complain to MO after the ball went out.

May be, but you said it should have been a penalty and it clearly couldn't possibly be. You might need to switch your Brentford fan head for your referee head? You certainly know that a penalty can't be given when the holding occurred before the kick was taken, no matter how many times the offender had been warned before.

You also questioned why VAR didn't get involved and suggested it was because they don't want to tell Oliver what to do, but what are you saying they should get involved for? Can't be a penalty for reasons already stated, there's no potential red card offence, no goal has been scored, there is literally no scope whatsoever for VAR getting involved.

 

[ladbroke8745]

May be, but you said it should have been a penalty and it clearly couldn't possibly be. You might need to switch your Brentford fan head for your referee head? You certainly know that a penalty can't be given when the holding occurred before the kick was taken, no matter how many times the offender had been warned before.

You also questioned why VAR didn't get involved and suggested it was because they don't want to tell Oliver what to do, but what are you saying they should get involved for? Can't be a penalty for reasons already stated, there's no potential red card offence, no goal has been scored, there is literally no scope whatsoever for VAR getting involved.

I genuinely thought the ball was in the area when the holding stopped. I grant that the holding started before in play, but it does look like it continues with the ball in play. In that scenario it would still be a foul.

For your second point, don't VAR look at all penalty situations too, not just goals and red cards. As I said, it did look like the ball was in play whilst the holding is continuing.
Normally you'd hear commentary teams saying they're looking at it, even if it's to check if the ball had been played or not. Because if they deem it to have been kicked, and therefore in play, then surely any continued holding would mean it would be a foul.
I accept that based on the stills you may be right.

And my comment about MO is purely based on every other game with him, you very rarely see him, if at all, sent to the screen or intercepted on.

 

[RustyRef]

I genuinely thought the ball was in the area when the holding stopped. I grant that the holding started before in play, but it does look like it continues with the ball in play. In that scenario it would still be a foul.

For your second point, don't VAR look at all penalty situations too, not just goals and red cards. As I said, it did look like the ball was in play whilst the holding is continuing.
Normally you'd hear commentary teams saying they're looking at it, even if it's to check if the ball had been played or not. Because if they deem it to have been kicked, and therefore in play, then surely any continued holding would mean it would be a foul.
I accept that based on the stills you may be right.

And my comment about MO is purely based on every other game with him, you very rarely see him, if at all, sent to the screen or intercepted on.

That video I posted is the exact moment the ball is kicked. If they are still holding they are doing so on the floor so there is no way on earth a penalty would be given either by the referee or recommended by VAR.

 

[ladbroke8745]

That video I posted is the exact moment the ball is kicked. If they are still holding they are doing so on the floor so there is no way on earth a penalty would be given either by the referee or recommended by VAR.

Sorry, i meant to say i did look like. I noticed your video corrected.