The Ref Stop

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PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Received this from County Appointments Officer

"Colleagues
Following the 1st couple of weeks of County Cups it seems that despite everyone being sent a link to the rules some people still get it wrong which has caused one game that has come to light to be replayed at the Associations cost
I have attached just 1 page which details which Competitions have ET and Pens or straight to Pens
It also has rules on whether Subs are roll on roll off or 3 from 5 and the fees
Please print this off and keep with you for when you may have a County Cup game
Should anyone now get this wrong Im afraid I will have to consider charging them and also they may be liable for the costs of any game that has to be replayed "

Emphasises the importance of checking and re checking competition rules, especially if a cup competition you don't usually officiate on!
 
The Ref Stop
Referees would in no way be liable for any costs of this nature.
County FAs should be more responsible than scaremongering their referees. I have enough empty threats of being taken to court by player and coaches without county getting involved
 
Seems to indicate that only the referee has made the error. I'd suggest that the referee and both clubs are as guilty as each other in these circumstances.
 
deusex said:
Referees would in no way be liable for any costs of this nature.
County FAs should be more responsible than scaremongering their referees. I have enough empty threats of being taken to court by player and coaches without county getting involved
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Sending out the County Cup rules in hard copy AND having them on web site and telling referees to check before matches seems to cover off their responsibilities to me and now this reminder. Not sure what else you expect county appointments officer to do?

No one mentions taking referees "to court" - just that they are likely to be charged with misconduct if they ignore or wrongly apply County Cup rules and maybe liable to costs incurred as a result of that misconduct - as the "mistake" is wholly avoidable I don't find that unreasonable at all.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
Seems to indicate that only the referee has made the error. I'd suggest that the referee and both clubs are as guilty as each other in these circumstances.
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Can't agree with that - we don't expect "clubs" to know laws of the game and as they are likely to take part in several competitions over the course of the season surely it IS up to us to make sure competition rules are applied correctly - especially as its basic stuff we're talking about - Subs & what happens if match ends all square at the end - its not that complex or difficult to check beforehand is it?
 
My FA always includes the cup rules in the email, but if there was ever a problem i would contact my fixtures sec. and enquire as to the rules for whatever cup match i was assigned to. There should be no excuse for any referee to not know the cup rules, i think there should be sanctions for not applying the correct rules maybe a small fine but not match costs.....
 
PinnerPaul said:
Sending out the County Cup rules in hard copy AND having them on web site and telling referees to check before matches seems to cover off their responsibilities to me and now this reminder. Not sure what else you expect county appointments officer to do?

No one mentions taking referees "to court" - just that they are likely to be charged with misconduct if they ignore or wrongly apply County Cup rules and maybe liable to costs incurred as a result of that misconduct - as the "mistake" is wholly avoidable I don't find that unreasonable at all.
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The word "liable" basically means you will owe us this moeny in the eyes of the law, which simply isn't true.
I agree charging a referee with misconduct for this isn't unreasonable at all, but the FA have sent an incompetent referee (of which there are many) and must share some of the blame for basically letting any idiot that can pass a multiple guess paper become a ref.
County should pay for the replay and suspend the ref for a season.
Trying to get a referee to financially reimburse an out of pocket party for a mistake is a VERY dangerous direction IMO
 
deusex said:
The word "liable" basically means you will owe us this moeny in the eyes of the law, which simply isn't true.
I agree charging a referee with misconduct for this isn't unreasonable at all, but the FA have sent an incompetent referee (of which there are many) and must share some of the blame for basically letting any idiot that can pass a multiple guess paper become a ref.
County should pay for the replay and suspend the ref for a season.
Trying to get a referee to financially reimburse an out of pocket party for a mistake is a VERY dangerous direction IMO
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Cheers for reply, yes can see what you are getting at with that last line.
 
This has happened at relatively senior levels. Last season an FA Vase game had to be replayed because the officials didn't know the rules, and also a supply league senior competition cup game went the same way. I know that the latter cost the league over £500 - because it was the match officials fault neither club had to pay for anything towards the replayed game so the league copped the whole lot (pitch, officials, away team travel, stewarding, food and drink, etc).

I agree that a referee shouldn't be held accountable for a mistake he makes that is in the opinion of the referee, e.g. gives a penalty incorrectly, doesn't give a penalty, a goal is scored from an offside position, etc, after all none of these will lead to the game being replayed. However, where it is proved that a game has to be replayed because a referee didn't know laws of the game and / or competition rules then he certainly should be held accountable. We all make mistakes during games, but there is no excuse whatsoever for going into games not knowing the laws and / or the competition rules.
 
I've got 1 on Sunday so have double checked - its U16 so that's 40' each way, 10 min h/t, 10 e/w e/t plus pens and subs are "rolling" 5 from 5!:)
 
The last thing I do before a cup game is check the rules on my phone. Why would you not take the 30 seconds?
 
Surely if the county or league want to make a ref pay the cost of a reply because they didn't know the competition rules then I imagine theyd struggle to do it through the courts without a signed agreement where the ref agrees to it.
 
Our club had an issue in a county cup game for one of our age groups. The ref (I was told afterwards) didn't allow more than five substitutions in total, when in it should have been roll on roll off from no more than five substitutes (so a squad size of sixteen). Interestingly, our CFA now uses the phrase "Repeat Substitutions" which they have confirmed means "Roll On Roll Off", so that may have confused the ref.
 
Had a similar issue with in my local league; it was an external cup game which as I understood was standard 3 from 5 subs, ET and Pens. Prior the game starting one of the managers informed me it was roll on/roll off subs, I wasn't convinced but a quick meet between the 2 managers, skippers and me the referee soon resolved the issue.

No need for the league, county or anyone else to get involved.

The comments in the OP from county have probably come from a losing side feeling in some way "hard done by"!
 
Padfoot said:
Supply every registered referee with a proper LOTG book and a proper County Handbook instead of being miserly and expecting referees to print out their own copies, then they can claim they have done all they can.
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In this case County Cup rules WERE sent in hard copy as well as being available on web site AND a link was sent via e mail as well.

Still waiting for promised LOTG though, although promised that that is on the way.
 
With regard to the OP - :D

Good luck charging a referee for the cost of a game. Would be amazed if anything in the CFA rules will support that.

Would anyone here pay that?

Of course we would all know the cup rules so it wouldn't apply to us anyway... ;)
 
SM said:
With regard to the OP - :D

Good luck charging a referee for the cost of a game. Would be amazed if anything in the CFA rules will support that.

Would anyone here pay that?
I wouldn't put myself in that position anyway, i would check the rules for the cup match i had been assigned.....
Of course we would all know the cup rules so it wouldn't apply to us anyway... ;)
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