Sorry, observers are specifically barred from officiating. If he had come down the whole of their observation would have been voided!
And before any of the L4's I know say it - "when has an observer done anything useful at a football match!!!!!"
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Sorry, observers are specifically barred from officiating. If he had come down the whole of their observation would have been voided!
And before any of the L4's I know say it - "when has an observer done anything useful at a football match!!!!!"
I’m as baffled as @Ciley Myrus. Sky was reporting live that the “match was close to being abandoned” eh?!! Because there isn’t a digital board to show injury time and sub numbers...come on. Play on, rough it for 10 mins.
And like @GraemeS i haven’t a scooby what to do as a 4th at that level. I’d be telling the ref to take the board and I’ll do the middle for the final 10.
And like @GraemeS i haven’t a scooby what to do as a 4th at that level. I’d be telling the ref to take the board and I’ll do the middle for the final 10.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Observer few year back went on line at a senior game here, ref was stuck in a traffic tailback, but when the referee turned up, 25 mins in, he took over as ref and put the current ref back to AR1 and the observer back to the stand !
Totally incorrect procedure, the AR should have continued as referee, with original referee taking over from observer on the line
I also once only got to a game with 10 mins to spare due to a traffic accident (all parties were kept informed very step of way) and the observer was primed to be me. Which was fine as he was just off the senior list himself and ten times the assistant I would ever be !
I guess you go with whats right at the time. But in the OP example, I would like to think you would see out the last ten mins with the 3 officials.
Totally incorrect procedure, the AR should have continued as referee, with original referee taking over from observer on the line
I also once only got to a game with 10 mins to spare due to a traffic accident (all parties were kept informed very step of way) and the observer was primed to be me. Which was fine as he was just off the senior list himself and ten times the assistant I would ever be !
I guess you go with whats right at the time. But in the OP example, I would like to think you would see out the last ten mins with the 3 officials.
Observers in England are told they must not take over if a match official doesn't make the game or gets injured during it, so that wasn't an option.
To those saying they wouldn't know how to use the comms kit and board, it is easy. Comms kit you listen and talk back if necessary, board you put two numbers on and hold it up ...
It has a memory function for when doing multiple subs so you can line them up, but 4th officials often don't use that as it can cause problems.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
In Scotland, even easier with board, we don't key the numbers in, the respective tech area guy does and we simply press the light up button.
Comms kit yes, just speak and listen, unless you have old school press and play in which case press your button to speak
Comms kit yes, just speak and listen, unless you have old school press and play in which case press your button to speak
And surely the observation would have been fairly void if the match had to be abandoned?Sorry, observers are specifically barred from officiating. If he had come down the whole of their observation would have been voided!
And before any of the L4's I know say it - "when has an observer done anything useful at a football match!!!!!"
No, as sufficient time would have passed for the observations to be valid.
one
RefChat Addict
I am surprised that a referee was changed mid game without a 'valid' reason. Our competition rules specifically forbid this. The referee starting the game remains on the game unless there is an unavoidable reason (injury, illness...). The LOTG does not explicitly mention this but i think its implied by "if the referee is unable to start or continue, the fourth official or the senior assistant referee or senior additional assistant referee takes over."
The reason is fairly simple, consistency.
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
It is clear the referee was wrong, the original ref should have taken over from the observer as AR
I would go as far to say had I been that AR I would have stood my ground and not permitted the original referee to take over
I would go as far to say had I been that AR I would have stood my ground and not permitted the original referee to take over
I had that on a Football League Reserves game at Loftus Road many moons ago. The referee was stuck in traffic and didn't make it for kick off so the senior assistant went in the middle and I went from 4th official to junior assistant (which was unfortunate as I had forgot my boots so was like Bambi on ice in my astros .. 
).
The referee turned up midway into the first half and to my surprise went into the middle for the start of the second half with everyone else reverting to where they should have started. I'm sure that the assessor said that shouldn't have happened, rather the three officials that started on the pitch should stay, and the late referee should have become 4th official.
).The referee turned up midway into the first half and to my surprise went into the middle for the start of the second half with everyone else reverting to where they should have started. I'm sure that the assessor said that shouldn't have happened, rather the three officials that started on the pitch should stay, and the late referee should have become 4th official.
one
RefChat Addict
A delicate situation if the original referee insists on taking over. The priority for me would be not to bring the game and the profession into disrepute by making a scene. If it gets to that I would let the the original referee know I will step aside unwillingly and will report it to the refsec /league.
as ciley says it is different in scotland, as to a referee being delayed in traffic or any other reason, if like in the premiership the 4th official has the same qualification as the referee, up here we call it cat 1, that is one thing but i have seen on television, the 4th official swapping with the junior ar, him/her swapping with the senior ar and them taking the whistle. so they must be different levels, so surely when the more qualified ref arrives he/she should become ref
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Can you ask for a member of the crowd to replace you if you get too cold?
I'm out on line tonight and tomorrow and its freezing (For the south obviously)
I'm out on line tonight and tomorrow and its freezing (For the south obviously
)
HarryD
Well-Known Member
You'd better hope you're kept busy - more so in the second half @PinnerPaul !!
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Indeed - was thinking of poor ARs last night watching the England Women's game - there was literally nothing for them to do when they were AR for England's half!
one
RefChat Addict
My point is that once the officials are changed and the game starts, the new team ARE the officials in the new position (and the person in the middle IS the referee). LOTG does not allow changing them, regardless of ranking, unless one of them is not able to continue. This is particularly true about the referee. So if it is done different to that in Scotland then IMO its a breach of the LOTG. LOTG only allows the competition rules to change officials if one is unable to continue.
I think ciley agrees with me on this.
LAW 6
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
This one incident was handled wrongly by the (original) referee. It was not done out of ignorance for any laws, just pure and simple, the referee believed he should take over as referee. In Scotland (senior game), AR2 would come on, as AR1 is a dedicated special assistant whose main involvement in the game is as assistant, with AR2 being involved either mostly, or half and half, as referee.
I have no issue with the original referee replacing the old battle worn observer as linesman but he should clearly not have taken over as referee
Back to the OP though and I maintain the game should have been brought to its conclusion by the 3 remaining officials
One of my ex colleagues ended up as 4th at a Scottish Cup semi due to being in the crowd ! In this case, he was using comp tickets from one of the officials so at least the guys on the pitch knew at least one responsible official was available......
I have no issue with the original referee replacing the old battle worn observer as linesman but he should clearly not have taken over as referee
Back to the OP though and I maintain the game should have been brought to its conclusion by the 3 remaining officials
One of my ex colleagues ended up as 4th at a Scottish Cup semi due to being in the crowd ! In this case, he was using comp tickets from one of the officials so at least the guys on the pitch knew at least one responsible official was available......