santa sangria
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Football, bloody hell
The week of the AAR
Could he really not have helped more with the Suarez dive... ?
The week of the AAR
Could he really not have helped more with the Suarez dive... ?
Barca PSG
- Thread starter santa sangria
- Start date
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Sensational!
Roy of the Rovers stuff. PSG all over the place, nicked an away goal and the tie looked dead and buried. Barca were far from their fluent best, but still bagged 6 goals!
Barcelona's 1st penalty. The referee blew straight away, thought he pointed to the spot, but then it looked as though he was going to card Neymar for a dive (later did) and presumably there was a conversation with the AAR which led to the penalty being given. Poor by the officials though, appeared to be several players standing in the box before Messi even started his run up.
2nd penalty, looked soft, but why put yourself in that position? PSG player was almost level with Neymar when he took the penalty.
Roy of the Rovers stuff. PSG all over the place, nicked an away goal and the tie looked dead and buried. Barca were far from their fluent best, but still bagged 6 goals!
Barcelona's 1st penalty. The referee blew straight away, thought he pointed to the spot, but then it looked as though he was going to card Neymar for a dive (later did) and presumably there was a conversation with the AAR which led to the penalty being given. Poor by the officials though, appeared to be several players standing in the box before Messi even started his run up.
2nd penalty, looked soft, but why put yourself in that position? PSG player was almost level with Neymar when he took the penalty.
We had a similar communication "delay" in the Arsenal match yesterday - how come this happens with the AAR's, but not the AR's? Perhaps becasue FIFA will only give them a useless stick and don't allow them to make signals or give decisions in their own right like the standard assistants do? These are qualified, experienced referees - treat them as such!
They have comms so why the need to display a signal? Simple case of "Tell the boss, let him make the decisions and any pertinent signals".
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
The AAR has given the Neymar pen. Why oh why has not chalked off the Suarez pen - that outrageous dive had to be visible to the AAR... (this from a massive Suarez fan BTW)...
But PSG can't really complain. They constantly fouled, dived and complained throughout. A 4-0 reverse should be an amazing ad for football, but this wasn't. It was an ad for gamesmanship. I think the officials did great (except for the Suarez pen).
But PSG can't really complain. They constantly fouled, dived and complained throughout. A 4-0 reverse should be an amazing ad for football, but this wasn't. It was an ad for gamesmanship. I think the officials did great (except for the Suarez pen).
AR's have comms too - so why not take away their flags as well then?
The precise reason AAR's have gained no credibility in the wider world is because they don't appear to do anything - as far as most people are concerned, the referee appears to give every decision. I suspect their decision accuracy is not that far off what referees or AR's manage normally (perhaps minus a little bit because they don't have anywhere near the flexibility in their positioning). But because they don't make a visible signal when making a decision, the referee gets the credit. And when they do miss something they should catch, it's easy to attribute blame to them.
Easy solution - give them flags and bring back the "penalty" signal. There's nothing stopping them confirming the decision over comms before giving it, but this would at least finally give them the appearance of actually contributing.
Cheating rat shouldn't have been on the pitch... what an absolutely disgraceful twunt of a human he is!
A Freethinker
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Take it your not a fan?
PSG constantly fouling and whinging and didn't turn up! Well done Barcelona really enjoyed the match, yes a few questionable decisions but given some were for Barca and some against!
deusex
RefChat Addict
Take it your not a fan?
PSG constantly fouling and whinging and didn't turn up! Well done Barcelona really enjoyed the match, yes a few questionable decisions but given some were for Barca and some against!
Really? I didn't notice any dodgy pens given to PSG, I did see a penalty they should have got not given though
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Let's get some balance here. Yes Suarez and Neymar were prone to theatrics last night as always, but PSG turned up with a negative mindset, were intent on kicking Barca off the pitch from the very first minute, got a few decisions in their favour as well and on the night got exactly what they deserved!
Blatant shirt pull on Messi by Veratti on the edge of the PSG box that went unpunished. On another night with a different referee, Veratti could quite easily have seen red given his persistent infringements.
Blatant shirt pull on Messi by Veratti on the edge of the PSG box that went unpunished. On another night with a different referee, Veratti could quite easily have seen red given his persistent infringements.
Peter Grove
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Come on Graeme, I'm sure you know the answer to that as well as anyone.
A Freethinker
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I didn't say PSG got a dodgy pen?
In the context of this discussion, I actually genuinely don't.
If it's considered better for AAR's to take a very specific position, make no visible signal, advise the ref in his ear and have him make the decision (which I absolutely think is a bad idea), why not do the same with the AR's?
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
Graeme they do signal albeit discreetly either stepping away to or from the goal, with their hands, through their buzzers etc... there is a protocol and like with ARs they are given instruction before the match as to how and what they should do! In the same way a referee will communicate a not 100% throw in which way either verbal or with a hand signal or both. You may not see it but it happens and as you progress you will become more aware of the subtle signals used.
But I'm not talking about what I see, or what you with your extra special experienced eyes see, I'm talking about what the average punter watching football sees. They don't appear to do anything, so their credibility is essentially zero. And that's a real problem.
These are good, experienced referees - I'm asking what is the point of a protocol that makes them pretend as if they're doing nothing? And whatever that logic is, why is the rule different for ARs, who get flags and a wide range of very visible signals to communicate their decisions?
1) The stick serves a purpose. If the comm fails, the AAR still has the beep function.
2) What the average punter knows isn't the main thing. "We" could educate the average Joe more, and tell him what the AAR's job is.
What we should be discussing is how we make the refereeing job most efficient.
3) I think making the AAR more visible could harm the whole thing. The referee is the key man. He is the "ruler". We don't want AAR's to wave flags or hands, because then we give the referee no room to overrule his/her decicion.
My two cents.
2) What the average punter knows isn't the main thing. "We" could educate the average Joe more, and tell him what the AAR's job is.
What we should be discussing is how we make the refereeing job most efficient.
3) I think making the AAR more visible could harm the whole thing. The referee is the key man. He is the "ruler". We don't want AAR's to wave flags or hands, because then we give the referee no room to overrule his/her decicion.
My two cents.
1) It would be very easy to make the stick into a flag and it could still buzz
2) I think it is important as they currently lack all credibility with the general public (and probably the players too) in my opinion. And FIFA/UEFA's decision to stick with them and continue to support the idea makes them look like clowns as a result. They get no credit for helping add to correct decisions and all the blame for wrong decisions made in the area. And that's far more noticeable than a small change in the % of correct decision they might be contributing to behind the scenes. It completely undermines the point of them being there.
3) Even if I accept this argument, how come the same doesn't apply to the AR's then? If this is the case, we should take away their flags as well and have them recommend all decisions through comms too.
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
GraemeS I have the same eyes as anyone else not extra special in fact with age I would say fading a little...as for experience yes probably more than you have but still no need for the sarcasm!
So you want a whole parade flagging officials lifting them up two waving because they disagree one says in, the other says out, ones a pen, ones not, ones offside, ones not the referee waving one or both down, planes landing in the goalmouth? Why not have them with giant boards which say Goal, Penalty for all to see like the fourth official, maybe get choreographers in for a few dance moves etc....makes soooooooooooooooooo much sense credibility would be so much better then!
I mean when a referee makes a decision everyone is aware why or what he has seen, even the commentators who review it a dozen times before they make their own Laws, sure why not add even more complications by adding flags and three officials giving different decisions which will be ripped to shreds the first time they disagree!
Just in case you don't get it? Yep...that's sarcasm.
Well you've managed to use an incredible strawman argument and simultaneously clearly missed the part where I'm not suggesting getting rid of the comms. Referees and AR's in the PL currently manage to agree on the decision before flags/arms go up and we even tend to do a decent job of it when I'm on the line and we're relying on eye contact and small gestures down by our sides. I don't see why 3 people discussing it, the referee making a final decision and then all 3 flagging is likely to be that much trickier than the current situation where 2 people are doing it in every match with comms in the world?
What I really want is the AAR's round the other side of the goal so that they actually offer a different viewpoint and have clearly distinct areas of responsibility from the AR. But that seems to be even less likely for some reason, so I'm compromising by suggesting they should actually be allowed to contribute in a visible way. That doesn't seem so strange to me....