Additional Time For Penalty

[one]

Playing devil's advocate here. Different but relevent scenario.

A counter attack breaks. It's 3 attackers vs 2 defenders. Ball is with the attackers near opponents PA. Your watch says half time at this very moment. You know there will be an outcome (goal or no goal) within the next 5 seconds or so. It will be interesting to know who will be blowing half time at that very second and who will wait 5 seconds or so for an outcome (or non promising attack situation) before blowing.

 

[Mintyref]

Playing devil's advocate here. Different but relevent scenario.

A counter attack breaks. It's 3 attackers vs 2 defenders. Ball is with the attackers near opponents PA. Your watch says half time at this very moment. You know there will be an outcome (goal or no goal) within the next 5 seconds or so. It will be interesting to know who will be blowing half time at that very second and who will wait 5 seconds or so for an outcome (or non promising attack situation) before blowing.

Timing is just not that accurate, you just have to let the attack finish and blow with the ball in a 'neutral' area.....just too much grief to do otherwise.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Playing devil's advocate here. Different but relevent scenario.

A counter attack breaks. It's 3 attackers vs 2 defenders. Ball is with the attackers near opponents PA. Your watch says half time at this very moment. You know there will be an outcome (goal or no goal) within the next 5 seconds or so. It will be interesting to know who will be blowing half time at that very second and who will wait 5 seconds or so for an outcome (or non promising attack situation) before blowing.

I know where you're going, but I'll play. There tends to be some variability in stoppage time, given how vague the LOTG are about it - which is where the argument for 'let the attack finish' can potentially be justified.
Although if it's a game with no stoppage time then I don't care if the ball is in midair towards an open goal, I'm blowing it.

 

[one]

Timing is just not that accurate, you just have to let the attack finish and blow with the ball in a 'neutral' area.....just too much grief to do otherwise.

I know where you're going, but I'll play. There tends to be some variability in stoppage time, given how vague the LOTG are about it - which is where the argument for 'let the attack finish' can potentially be justified.
Although if it's a game with no stoppage time then I don't care if the ball is in midair towards an open goal, I'm blowing it.

So would you say the same concept can sometimes be applied to when a penalty is being taken at the end of the half?

In the OP there is no room for wriggle and by the time the penalty is taken we are well into extended time. I'd tell everyone I have extended time for the penalty only, and if anyone but keeper touches ball play is over. There will be no surprises, no grief.

But if the pen is awarded with 20 or 30 seconds to go and actual kick taken say 5 or so seconds into the 'extended time, no need to tell anyone anything and my calculation of required added time will be adjusted a little to get an outcome. Again no surprises, no grief.

 

[PP62]

It's really simple. If you're asked how long is left just say "we're in the last minute". You haven't backed yourself into a corner and the added time is entirely up to you. It works before half time and before full time. As Minty said, the timing is not that accurate.

 

[lincs22]

Timing is just not that accurate, you just have to let the attack finish and blow with the ball in a 'neutral' area.....just too much grief to do otherwise.

And that is why you should never have a buzzer alarm on your game watch, for the 45 minutes.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

So would you say the same concept can sometimes be applied to when a penalty is being taken at the end of the half?

In the OP there is no room for wriggle and by the time the penalty is taken we are well into extended time. I'd tell everyone I have extended time for the penalty only, and if anyone but keeper touches ball play is over. There will be no surprises, no grief.

But if the pen is awarded with 20 or 30 seconds to go and actual kick taken say 5 or so seconds into the 'extended time, no need to tell anyone anything and my calculation of required added time will be adjusted a little to get an outcome. Again no surprises, no grief.

I'm going to ask you another question.

Why does the 'penalty at the end of time clause exist?

"No surprises" comes when you tell every player, before the kick, that the moment anybody else touches it, it's dead and it won't count.

I always have to chuckle at these supposed 'make it easy for myself' sort of arguments.

Given how hard some people are pushing to allow the 2nd or 3rd shot on goal, I wonder if some on here have forgotten how much trouble might erupt if that one actually goes in. People always seem to focus on one team with the 'make it easy for myself' argument and forget about the other one.
weird!

 

[Mintyref]

I'm going to ask you another question.

Why does the 'penalty at the end of time clause exist?

"No surprises" comes when you tell every player, before the kick, that the moment anybody else touches it, it's dead and it won't count.

I always have to chuckle at these supposed 'make it easy for myself' sort of arguments.

Given how hard some people are pushing to allow the 2nd or 3rd shot on goal, I wonder if some on here have forgotten how much trouble might erupt if that one actually goes in. People always seem to focus on one team with the 'make it easy for myself' argument and forget about the other one.
weird!

It exists because otherwise play will have ended before the penalty can take place. Simple really. That's also why there is not any allowance for a second attempt just like in penalty shoot outs!

 

[one]

I'm going to ask you another question.

Why does the 'penalty at the end of time clause exist?

Good question. As Minty said its so that the pen can take place and be 'completed'. Its a significant event and it is to restore a big injustice and has to take place for fairness before the game is over. But lets look at this a little more and go back to the recent history of it.

The law used to say the the referee decides when the penalty is complete. It was very vague and caused a lot of inconsistencies. It then was clarified it by saying: "The penalty kick is completed when the ball stops moving, goes out of play or the referee stops play for any infringement of the Laws." This new definition was a good one and clearly allowed some additional play after a save or a rebound. So if we are after the spirit of the law, this could give us some indication.
Why was the additional bit of "is played by any player..." added? The previous clause/clarification of 'complete' alone had the issue of potentially allowing play to be over extended even to the extent that a legal goal could be scored at the other end.
So yes, literally and to the letter of the law, the game is over as soon as the ball is touched by another player. But there are also many other literal laws which are worked around to achieve a 'football' outcome, like the time is not always up the very second the clock ticks over. Or its not a IFK on the 7th second the keeper holds the ball.

I always have to chuckle at these supposed 'make it easy for myself' sort of arguments.

Given how hard some people are pushing to allow the 2nd or 3rd shot on goal, I wonder if some on here have forgotten how much trouble might erupt if that one actually goes in. People always seem to focus on one team with the 'make it easy for myself' argument and forget about the other one.
weird!

I don't buy this argument as it directly contradicts your earlier assertion of allowing a promising attack to complete and justifying it on 'variability' of the stoppage. Where is the focus on the defending team in that? My approach is never about making it easy. Its about meeting the expectations of football without strictly breaking the law. The same as what you would do when allowing a promising attack to complete.