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The instinct to cover mistakes seemingly still persists. I'm not going to re-litigate, but it seems very likely that in this specific incident, one mistake happened and a different (IMO, still incorrect, but whatever) decision was claimed almost immediately. It might be the case that by the...

Agree with this completely BTW. As far as I understand it, the rules have changed such that they could in theory, release 90+ minutes of audio the moment the final whistle goes for every single game. I do understand the arguments for a little more restraint than that, we've all seen people on...

I think I've explained it pretty well in this thread. If that doesn't pass your threshold for "there's an inconsistency between what we see and what we're told to see, and it stinks", then that's a problem with you and your willingness to accept what PGMOL say, not with my explanation.

So the entire defence is that at some point, they might realise their cover up isn't going to pass muster and so might pivot in order to specifically chuck VAR Michael "golden boy" Oliver under the bus? At the moment, the balance of probability seems to be that we are being fed bullshit. Until...

From the Dale article, screenshot at the moment the ball hits the defenders hand - I'm not buying that the other defender is remotely relevant there. Distance is irrelevant if there is room to run into, which there is - take the handballing defender out (who handballs because he's off balance...

Sure, I just thought we could apply a smidge of critical thinking and infer whether we think it is likely if those at the top of our profession are being honest with us or not. Based on the evidence we see so far, balance of probability is that it took 13 minutes of the season for our top...

But his account is wholly consistent with what the commentator said live, with what Carragher stated at HT and (while I know these points aren't definitive) with the angles that were shown to us live that only showed the hand touch late in the review, and the speed of the review. Conversely...

I worry that "first opportunity to release the ball" either 1) is taken very literally and doesn't add any extra time. In your scenario, it is possible to release the ball from the split second the GK makes the catch, which I don't think is the desired start of the count. Or 2) is taken to mean...

I think it's even simpler - it just needs an AND. You can keep the current definition of control, just also add that the count only starts when that is the case AND when the GK is afforded sufficient room by opposing players to safely carry out a kick or throw from hands.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/45985559/the-var-review-eberechi-eze-crystal-palace-marcos-sensei-dogso-red-card As I suspected based on what was said at half time - the VAR just didn't look long enough to see the actual handball touch. Not a particularly impressive start to VAR this...

Carragher at HT claims the VAR comms to the ref he heard was that it wasn't given due to the ball hitting the arm directly after a play off the foot. Which is true, but that's not the claimed HB, that was the touch by the hand that followed the arm, that looks a lot like an additional deliberate...

Even more interesting scenario: Keeper A throws the ball out, but it misses all outfield players and rolls into the opposition PA. Keeper B picks the ball up, goes to throw it out, but ends up throwing it into his own net as per the video in post #7. Both team's last touch was a GK's hand. What...

I watched a grassroots ref youtube video the other day, and he said that because he was focused on counting, he often found himself stopping in a poor position in order to do the count, rather than using the GK's "thinking time" to determine/get back into position like he would previously. I...

Not refereeing at all =/= not refereeing a big game. Those are distinctly different. Your original post implied Hackett was unhappy MO wasn't refereeing at all, and you were disagreeing with that. I think that would be a fair complaint, as he could easily have done any of the other 6 games...

That is distinctly different to what you reported he said previously.

Exactly.

A season consists of 380 league games, 370 of which aren't on the final day and this season, 376 of which aren't a final day CL-qualification decider. For me, that feels like quite a few opportunities to gain experience without risking one of your most promising young officials making a...

While I'm usually the first to pile in on Hackett (and am also someone who doesn't think Oliver has had a good season and isn't currently living up to his reputation), this is a disingenuous response. There were 10 games going on at the same time on Sunday, only 4 of which could (with even the...

This is where I am too. Ask me to make a yes/no decision based on replays but without knowing what actually happened on the pitch, and I'm saying he's more likely to not have control when it's kicked than to have control. Am I VAR-overturn level of confident in that call? No. But it's...

Exactly. I'm sure historically there are decision where an AR has incorrectly decided a player is onside and kept the flag down, and injury has resulted. This has always been a thing.