The Ref Stop

ARS vs CHE

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The Ref Stop
But who do you penalise? How can you differentiate between one foul challenge and another? An impossible task? It’s highlighted every week by any number of teams in any games you watch on TV.

I honestly have no idea how the current goings on can be halted. Award a penalty at the first opportunity would be quite an attractive proposition but with so much going on is it justifiable and of course then the criticism would be at referees for spoiling the game🤷🏻‍♂️
 
All I can say is that every single one them would be called if an tracker did it to a defender. The other way around, the less they are called the more they happen.
 
Hilly1618 said:
But who do you penalise? How can you differentiate between one foul challenge and another? An impossible task?
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I'd say if you were holding in a lock a player who is trying to play the ball, you'd give a foul. There's no reason to hold a player with both your hands around him, other than to impede him. Especially for more than a second.
 
But how do you differentiate between pair 1 and pair 2? I’m not disagreeing that fouls are being committed but multiple fouls are committed by both teams at every corner.
 
What is the situation at corners currently in the grassroots levels of the game? Is it easier to manage at that level without the intervention of multiple cameras and the inevitable social media fall out ?
 
Hilly1618 said:
But how do you differentiate between pair 1 and pair 2? I’m not disagreeing that fouls are being committed but multiple fouls are committed by both teams at every corner.
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In both given instances there was a clear lock on an attacking player who is trying to play the ball, you don't even have to differentiate between any pairs.
In the first video there's comedic levels of holding commited by Arsenal players. But in such instances I'd like it to be seen given if it impedes the one who plays the ball (Joao Pedro). If in this case Joao Pedro wouldn't have been held by Saliba, but the rest of the holding offences you can see happening there would still be there, it would be fine not to give anything there (unless it's some sort of a throw on the floor).
 
what's rugby's approach here? every break down / ruck / maul / scrum generally has an offence if the ref looks hard enough, how and why do they penalise certain offences but not others...
 
TheCuriousOne said:
In both given instances there was a clear lock on an attacking player who is trying to play the ball, you don't even have to differentiate between any pairs.
In the first video there's comedic levels of holding commited by Arsenal players. But in such instances I'd like it to be seen given if it impedes the one who plays the ball (Joao Pedro). If in this case Joao Pedro wouldn't have been held by Saliba, but the rest of the holding offences you can see happening there would still be there, it would be fine not to give anything there (unless it's some sort of a throw on the floor).
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I was asking in general terms and not the two videos.
 
Hilly1618 said:
I was asking in general terms and not the two videos.
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I gave the answer to that in the second part of the comment by giving an example from one of these videos. Give the foul if the offense happens on the player that tries to play the ball. It simplifies the decision making, yet doesn't allow the offenders go completely unpunished.

Also, I think it would be good to just give a foul if you are holding both of your hands around a player in a lock, like in both cases, even if there isn't any force because there's no need for any of them to do that other than to impede the movement of the opponent. Give a few pens, and it won't happen again and corners in general will be with less fouls like this. But as with many things, after it gets implemented for a few weeks, they tend to return to their old ways most of the time.
 
TheCuriousOne said:
Are these bear hugs not a foul?

https://twitter.com/x/status/2028383459819893243

https://twitter.com/x/status/2028159671710720167

At the end of the day they impede movement - hard to jump, cannot fall down much either to show that it was foul due to being held. Saliba doesn't even try to play the ball, just holds Joao Pedro.

PS. Ignore the text in the tweets, these were the best videos I could find online.
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Just out of interest, why didn't you show all the Chelsea holding offenses the other end?

The biggest issue I saw in the match was the appalling lack of understanding what advantage is. The ref stopped three(!) Arsenal counter attacks when they outnumbered Chelsea defenders, but the ref stopped play to issue a free kick. Only 2 of the 3 resulted in a caution.
 
Prem refs have completely given up on proactive warnings and “fifa fingers” before corners.

It’s the wild west. Must have been briefed. Is the idea there have been too many goals from corners so now defenders (and GKs) have carte blanche?

Watching, I thought it was nuts.

…and IMHO we cannot allow at grassroots!
 
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Ryanj91 said:
Just out of interest, why didn't you show all the Chelsea holding offenses the other end?
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Because there was just one (when Arsenal scored their second goal) that came anywhere close to these ones - Santos was holding Saliba, but Saliba had his arm around Santos too.
 
In one incident in the game Rice is not even looking at the ball yet arms around his opponent with his back to the ball. The one where he elbows the ball was an easy penalty. Arm above his head around the opponent’s neck.

Howard Webb said at the start of the season that Premier League referees will award more penalties for holding in the 2025/26 season.

Referees he said have been told to crack down on grappling at set pieces where a player's contact impedes an opponent's movement, following feedback from Premier League captains, players and clubs

"We have to identify those situations that do fall in line with the feedback that we had, that there are just a few too many examples of players clearly pulling people back, impacting their ability to move to the ball or some clear extreme actions are not being penalised,"

Obviously a lot of referees missed that briefing.

It now an epidemic and It won’t stop until penalised even if that means multiple free kicks and penalties.
 
Ryanj91 said:
The biggest issue I saw in the match was the appalling lack of understanding what advantage is. The ref stopped three(!) Arsenal counter attacks when they outnumbered Chelsea defenders, but the ref stopped play to issue a free kick. Only 2 of the 3 resulted in a caution.
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From memory, for Palmer's caution the whistle went just after the goalkeeper had released the ball - it should be pretty exceptional circumstances for a referee to play advantage when a team are in their own defensive third, and I don't think the referee was wrong for stopping play to caution there.

Neto's was a second caution, which the LotG explicitly state advantage should not be played unless there is "a clear opportunity to score a goal" - ignoring the fact that it was a reckless tackle anyway, this was SPA, not DOGSO.
 
ARF said:
From memory, for Palmer's caution the whistle went just after the goalkeeper had released the ball - it should be pretty exceptional circumstances for a referee to play advantage when a team are in their own defensive third, and I don't think the referee was wrong for stopping play to caution there.

Neto's was a second caution, which the LotG explicitly state advantage should not be played unless there is "a clear opportunity to score a goal" - ignoring the fact that it was a reckless tackle anyway, this was SPA, not DOGSO.
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You speak the truth… just… but you are omitting the one before Palmer’s - a bog standard missed advantage that irked the fans. Palmer’s was actually an amazing opportunity for the referee. If he waits a moment - or gets help from the AR - he can have an advantage, avoid booking the blue star player, and look like a boss - but it was a missed opportunity. And was appealed so hard because of the previous.

And of course double yellow yada yada and of course the Sky commentators absolute numpties on this. How can the world’s richest sport have commentators that don’t know the basic “rules”… how much😱?
 
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