The Ref Stop

Liverpool Vs Real Madrid

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bester

bester

RefChat Addict
Free kick given outside the box for handball.
Replays show the contact inside

VAR sends the referee to the monitor on the basis it wasn't handball as the arm was in a natural position

So much for UEFAs low bar for handling
 
The Ref Stop
Was very surprised this was not given as a penalty
 
If it hits the rear arm (right arm?) then it’s given. Hitting the front arm, I can understand overturning the call. Not quite sure where it’s supposed to go.
 
But aren’t those almost universally given in Europe? PL sure, no pen - but to say that’s a clear and obvious error under the European interpretation seems off.
 
David F said:
But aren’t those almost universally given in Europe? PL sure, no pen - but to say that’s a clear and obvious error under the European interpretation seems off.
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I think they've moderated a bit the last season or two. His left arm was very close to the body.
 
David F said:
But aren’t those almost universally given in Europe? PL sure, no pen - but to say that’s a clear and obvious error under the European interpretation seems off.
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We will probably never know but maybe the VAR thought it was not a penalty but had to send him to the screen because the 'handball' was inside the area so the ref has to make a judgement for himself.
 
Paul_10 said:
We will probably never know but maybe the VAR thought it was not a penalty but had to send him to the screen because the 'handball' was inside the area so the ref has to make a judgement for himself.
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I believe this had to be. Two-step process. First, if the HB is in the PA, it has to be a PK, so it has to go down for that. (The VAR cannot, as someone suggested above, have sent it down because the VAR thought it wasn’t an offense, as the DFk was not reviewable.) once it is a PK by location, we reach step 2 of whether it is an offense. Either the VAR recommended the R review in step,2, or the R took it upon himself once there to evaluate. And a weird quirk of fate that an unreviewable DFK gets reversed by the VAR process.
 
Paul_10 said:
We will probably never know but maybe the VAR thought it was not a penalty but had to send him to the screen because the 'handball' was inside the area so the ref has to make a judgement for himself.
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I think if this were the case it would be a factual overturn with no visit to the monitor needed.

For what it’s worth I like the VAR review. Arm is tucked in so natural position and not deliberate.
 
RichardRef said:
I think if this were the case it would be a factual overturn with no visit to the monitor needed.

For what it’s worth I like the VAR review. Arm is tucked in so natural position and not deliberate.
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I think the Brentford Liverpool game highlights why a referee gives a foul and free kick but actually in the penalty area should not always result in a "factual" overturn because that was extremely soft and leads to the theory that a referee will give a certain decision outside the box but a different one inside.
 
Commentators again talking nonsense, including Clattenburg, talking about natural position. Was the arm that the ball hit in a supportable position for the footballing action being performed? Yes, absolutely, he's thrown himself at the ball and his arm couldn't have really been anywhere else.

So I think the process was ...

FK given on pitch
Var check to see if it was inside or outside the area
Clearly inside the area so they check the APP
That leads them to see it wasn't intentional handling
Review recommended
 
RustyRef said:
Commentators again talking nonsense, including Clattenburg, talking about natural position. Was the arm that the ball hit in a supportable position for the footballing action being performed? Yes, absolutely, he's thrown himself at the ball and his arm couldn't have really been anywhere else.
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Clattenburg talking non sense? What a shock.
 
RustyRef said:
Commentators again talking nonsense, including Clattenburg, talking about natural position. Was the arm that the ball hit in a supportable position for the footballing action being performed? Yes, absolutely, he's thrown himself at the ball and his arm couldn't have really been anywhere else.

So I think the process was ...

FK given on pitch
Var check to see if it was inside or outside the area
Clearly inside the area so they check the APP
That leads them to see it wasn't intentional handling
Review recommended
Click to expand...

"Intentional handling"? We're discussing natural or unnatural position.

We will see far more dubious decisions given as handball very spom, and people will talk about UEFA being very strict on bodies being unnaturally big and the decision not being a clear and obvious error
 
bester said:
"Intentional handling"? We're discussing natural or unnatural position.

We will see far more dubious decisions given as handball very spom, and people will talk about UEFA being very strict on bodies being unnaturally big and the decision not being a clear and obvious error
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This is where it’s all an absolute mess. I’m fine with it not being a penalty. However, by UEFA standards it is a pen. But not by PGMOL standards.

People running it simply don’t have a clue. We shouldn’t be in situations like this in which everything is a complete and utter guess as to whether they will penalise it or. Madrids penalty give vs Marseille being a prime example.
 
bester said:
"Intentional handling"? We're discussing natural or unnatural position.

We will see far more dubious decisions given as handball very spom, and people will talk about UEFA being very strict on bodies being unnaturally big and the decision not being a clear and obvious error
Click to expand...
But we can't just talk about natural / unnatural position without also asking whether the arm position was justifiable for that specific situation. He came flying out to block the shot and the ball hit his arm which was close to his body. I suspect the referee thought it hit his other arm which was much further away from the body.

This felt like a good use of VAR to me personally.
 
Forgetting the handball/not-handball debate - I though the ref was caught out a few times from his positioning - once he blocked MacAllister, he got hit by the ball, and I also think he impeeded a real madrid player too.
 
Steve Fall said:
Forgetting the handball/not-handball debate - I though the ref was caught out a few times from his positioning - once he blocked MacAllister, he got hit by the ball, and I also think he impeeded a real madrid player too.
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The McAllister one did make me chuckle as it was on the left side of the penalty area. Almost exactly where it was suggested in a different thread the referee should be to avoid getting in the way of play.
 
RustyRef said:
Commentators again talking nonsense, including Clattenburg, talking about natural position. Was the arm that the ball hit in a supportable position for the footballing action being performed? Yes, absolutely, he's thrown himself at the ball and his arm couldn't have really been anywhere else.

So I think the process was ...

FK given on pitch
Var check to see if it was inside or outside the area
Clearly inside the area so they check the APP
That leads them to see it wasn't intentional handling
Review recommended
Click to expand...
Not really an APP issue. It is the offense causing the PK that needs to be reviewed once it is in the PA. (The APP would be looking for an offense by the attacking team in the led up.)
 
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