The Ref Stop

Brentford v Man Utd

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ladbroke8745

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Speechless as to how Nathan Collins has stayed on the pitch.
Pulls Mbeumo down for a penalty (think assistant gave it via coms as was very delayed) but definitely a penalty.
But only cautions and VAR backs it up as "he didn't have possession of the ball". Without the pull he has the ball, on the 6 yard line, directly in front of goal, and will very likely score.

How its not DOGSO is beyond me.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1971927357834645526

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The Ref Stop
They changed the law in 2016, as its a triple punishment (penatly, player down and suspension).

The award of a penalty restores the opportunity to score. so if he deems the foul to be genuine, then its a yellow.

Shirt pulls dont fall under genuine, so he must have deemed it not to be a DOGSO. Maybe the distance the player was from the ball or the speed it was coming into the box.
 
Even the reasoning used of "Player didn't have possession of the ball". Last I checked that was a consideration and not an absolute requirement.

If you asked for an example of DOGSO where the player didn't have possession, this would be it.
 
RustyRef said:
I'm baffled how they came to that conclusion. It ticks everything, distance is obvious, direction is towards goal and there are no defenders. OK, he didn't have control but the likelihood of him getting control was extremely high.
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If you asked 100 qualified refs if this is DOGSO Id be shocked if less than 97 said yes.
 
Notwithstanding the baffling VAR decision, is it not time guidance was updated to stop teams that have committed fouls from making substitutions before the restart? Brentford's gamesmanship further delaying the penalty after two VAR checks was ridiculous, and they made no-notice subs a bit later when United had a free kick as well to break up the game...
 
dadofref said:
Notwithstanding the baffling VAR decision, is it not time guidance was updated to stop teams that have committed fouls from making substitutions before the restart? Brentford's gamesmanship further delaying the penalty after two VAR checks was ridiculous, and they made no-notice subs a bit later when United had a free kick as well to break up the game...
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As much as I can see where youre coming from, every team does this type of "gamesmanship".
You can argue why do teams makes subs in the 93rd and 94th minutes of 5 added on when leading by a goal, what impact are they actually making?
Teams almost always do it to break up momentum.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
As much as I can see where youre coming from, every team does this type of "gamesmanship".
You can argue why do teams makes subs in the 93rd and 94th minutes of 5 added on when leading by a goal, what impact are they actually making?
Teams almost always do it to break up momentum.
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They do, but it's one thing breaking up momentum when you have the ball, or you've notified the 4th official in good time that you want to make a sub the next time the ball goes out of play; I'd say it's borderline unsporting conduct when you're further delaying the taking of a penalty that's already been significantly delayed by VAR for no good reason 🤷‍♂️
 
cwyeary said:
Even the reasoning used of "Player didn't have possession of the ball". Last I checked that was a consideration
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That is not a consideration.

I watched it live on TV and the only reason I think they could have come up with is he was not likely to gain control of the ball which I strongly disagree with.

It looks to me a very good example of the referee going yellow and relying on VAR to correct him if he is wrong and VAR not coming good. I think he would have gone red if there was no VAR.
 
deusex said:
I'll be expecting a Howard Webb apology as is the norm now.
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For me this is by far a worse VAR decision than the a Chelsea Fulham incident but because it benefitted the smaller clubs, there won't be much noise over it so Howard wont be be treating his VAR so harshly as he did with Salisbury.

It looked a stick on DOGSO red card, he would of had a clear shot on goal if it was not for the pull back and there is no way that can be counted as challenging for the ball.
 
Paul_10 said:
For me this is by far a worse VAR decision than the a Chelsea Fulham incident but because it benefitted the smaller clubs, there won't be much noise over it so Howard wont be be treating his VAR so harshly as he did with Salisbury.

It looked a stick on DOGSO red card, he would of had a clear shot on goal if it was not for the pull back and there is no way that can be counted as challenging for the ball.
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This may well be an unwanted consequence of a manager publicly criticising his employees in public, and by criticising I means saying the VAR intervention was wrong. It feels to me like VAR are scared of their own shadows since the Chelsea vs Fulham incident, they just don't seem to know what they should and shouldn't be recommending reviews for. Haven't seen it yet but Sky are reporting that there was a clanger in the Chelsea vs Brighton game where a defender kicked an attacker in the head, no penalty given on field and VAR didn't recommend a review.
 
one said:
That is not a consideration.

I watched it live on TV and the only reason I think they could have come up with is he was not likely to gain control of the ball which I strongly disagree with.

It looks to me a very good example of the referee going yellow and relying on VAR to correct him if he is wrong and VAR not coming good. I think he would have gone red if there was no VAR.
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I don't think Craig Pawson saw it at all, there was a delay before he gave the penalty and it would appear to be the AR that told him to give it. Be good to hear the audio as if he told him it was for a full back they should be discussing the colour of the card.

I think referees have been really good this season at just giving red cards so it is difficult to argue they are relying on VAR to bail them out. Sanchez last week, Konsa at the start of the season, Toti for Wolves, and Reinaldo for Sunderland. The only one this season I can think of where VAR have corrected a non-red card decision is Gordon for Newcastle against Liverpool, and that was understandable as no one really seemed to see it real time.
 
cwyeary said:
Even the reasoning used of "Player didn't have possession of the ball". Last I checked that was a consideration and not an absolute requirement.
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The consideration is not even possession of the ball. It is “likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball.” The explanation given is simply wrong.

The PL, more so than other leagues, seems to put a premium on finding excuses not to go red. And VAR is more reluctant to get involved than most competitions.
 
dadofref said:
Notwithstanding the baffling VAR decision, is it not time guidance was updated to stop teams that have committed fouls from making substitutions before the restart? Brentford's gamesmanship further delaying the penalty after two VAR checks was ridiculous, and they made no-notice subs a bit later when United had a free kick as well to break up the game...
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They only get 3 windows to make transfers, so not as if teams have the ability to break up play whenever they want. For me it is just part of the game, teams will always seek to gain opportunities to disadvantage the opponents. I'm also not sure it really maker any difference here, after a 4 minute VAR check I really doubt that having to wait an extra minute made any difference to Ferdandes's penalty.
 
RustyRef said:
They only get 3 windows to make transfers, so not as if teams have the ability to break up play whenever they want. For me it is just part of the game, teams will always seek to gain opportunities to disadvantage the opponents. I'm also not sure it really maker any difference here, after a 4 minute VAR check I really doubt that having to wait an extra minute made any difference to Ferdandes's penalty.
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To be fair, Fernandes needs excuses.
He used the ref bumped into him previously.
He could just admit that the pressure gets to him and maybe he should pass the ball to someone else next time.
I half expected Mbeumo to take it to be honest. He is so calm under pressure and a very good penalty taker.
 
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