The Ref Stop

Junior/Youth match called off after pitch was fit

K

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
I was asked by a ref to look at the pitch near me (800 metres away) this morning. He lives 7 miles away. At 9am the pitch was fit for play no issues at all so i called him and told him so. The game was u16s and a 10.30am kick off.

He called me this morning and when he turned up at 10am nobody from either team were there. He got a text at 10.20 from the home manager saying "it's too cold to play football today so i have called it off."

He was of the opinion nothing was wrong with the pitch, the same as me.

It was a council pitch, if that makes any difference, and the staff was there. The second pitch next door had a game at 10am and they played it.

Does the ref have any grounds for complaint? He's not been paid anything.
 
The Ref Stop
U7s team I manage recieved a message today saying 'cold' is not an acceptable reason for calling a game off. Only the condition of the pitch matters.

I don't know if the ref has any direct recourse but the club shouldn't be doing it, obviously
 
Without wanting to sound critical, I knew who had posted this before I opened the thread. Being offended on behalf of others doesn't solve anything, if the referee in question thinks there is something wrong he or she needs to make representations to the appointing authority. You'll get the same stock answer from me every time you post about a game that you weren't refereeing being called off when it perhaps shouldn't have been, it is, with the upmost respect, nothing to do with you and the referee in question needs to deal with it.

Dependent on competition rules, but it is normally the case that if a referee attends a game that is called off through no fault of either team it is 50% match fee, if either team is at fault it is a full match fee. The only people that can make that ruling are those on the relevant management committee, which is why the referee affected needs to report what happened. What happened on the pitch next door is neither here nor there, and it comes down to more than the pitch itself.
 
RustyRef said:
Without wanting to sound critical, I knew who had posted this before I opened the thread. Being offended on behalf of others doesn't solve anything, if the referee in question thinks there is something wrong he or she needs to make representations to the appointing authority. You'll get the same stock answer from me every time you post about a game that you weren't refereeing being called off when it perhaps shouldn't have been, it is, with the upmost respect, nothing to do with you and the referee in question needs to deal with it.

Dependent on competition rules, but it is normally the case that if a referee attends a game that is called off through no fault of either team it is 50% match fee, if either team is at fault it is a full match fee. The only people that can make that ruling are those on the relevant management committee, which is why the referee affected needs to report what happened. What happened on the pitch next door is neither here nor there, and it comes down to more than the pitch itself.
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Devils advocate... It does tell you on the home page who started the thread 😂

Aside from that... Spot on. Competition rules will determine what happens in this situation.

Incidentally @Kent Ref how did the pitch inspection come about. It's unusual for a youth match to require a referees inspection. Did you liaise with the club and the match referee or was this just between you and a mate?
 
RustyRef said:
Without wanting to sound critical, I knew who had posted this before I opened the thread. Being offended on behalf of others doesn't solve anything, if the referee in question thinks there is something wrong he or she needs to make representations to the appointing authority. You'll get the same stock answer from me every time you post about a game that you weren't refereeing being called off when it perhaps shouldn't have been, it is, with the upmost respect, nothing to do with you and the referee in question needs to deal with it.

Dependent on competition rules, but it is normally the case that if a referee attends a game that is called off through no fault of either team it is 50% match fee, if either team is at fault it is a full match fee. The only people that can make that ruling are those on the relevant management committee, which is why the referee affected needs to report what happened. What happened on the pitch next door is neither here nor there, and it comes down to more than the pitch itself.
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The ref is 18 or 19 and i think he's been qualified since September. I was helping him out as he's very inexperienced.

I've told him to e-mail the league and explain what happened. He's made a pointless journey.
 
Not this again @Kent Ref, this feels like Groundhog Day! 😂

Should a game be called off due to how cold it is? Generally not, unless a very young age group. But even then, if the teams don’t want to play, you can’t force them.

Whether a fee is owed, that would be down to competition/league rules
 
JamesL said:
Devils advocate... It does tell you on the home page who started the thread 😂

Aside from that... Spot on. Competition rules will determine what happens in this situation.

Incidentally @Kent Ref how did the pitch inspection come about. It's unusual for a youth match to require a referees inspection. Did you liaise with the club and the match referee or was this just between you and a mate?
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I mentored this ref once and he wanted to know if i thought the pitch was ok. I had no game so cycled across to see how it looked.
 
Doing the inspection for him isn’t too much of an issue. Although from a development point of view for him, might have been worth him doing the inspection with you.

He’s obviously young and inexperienced, but maybe next time in such situations, he could have made contact with the home club to let them know you/he had done a check etc. The club advising him 10mins before kick off is a bit naughty, but you can be proactive in such situations.
 
JamesL said:
Devils advocate... It does tell you on the home page who started the thread 😂

Aside from that... Spot on. Competition rules will determine what happens in this situation.

Incidentally @Kent Ref how did the pitch inspection come about. It's unusual for a youth match to require a referees inspection. Did you liaise with the club and the match referee or was this just between you and a mate?
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You assume I have way more attention to detail than I actually have. Especially when I've been out watching Wednesday chuck away yet another game 😂
 
Kent Ref said:
I mentored this ref once and he wanted to know if i thought the pitch was ok. I had no game so cycled across to see how it looked.
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The problem is, and again I know that you mean well, what is the point of you inspecting it? Unless the league have sanctioned an inspection your view means absolutely nothing. If you say it is playable the decision still has to be made by the appointed referee. If you say it is unplayable the decision still has to be made by the appointed referee. Unless the ground authority take it out of his hands completely by calling it off, you visiting the ground to have a look doesn't actually serve any meaningful purpose.
 
If I've turned up at a ground and not been informed its off then I would email the league and ask what the rule is regarding payment. I've done this before in a Sheffield Sunday League years ago and the league told me the rule was they pay me and then the home club pays them (seems a very reasonable rule). Had to chase over many weeks and recieved some passive aggressive comments prior to payment so stopped refereeing on that league. I'd driven to the furthest ground from my house to find nobody there, turns out they called it off on Friday (I could've chosen from half a dozen other games that day from managers asking me from various leagues).

Ask the league on the rule and ensure if you're owed payment you get it. Its your game too.
 
Am I missing something? Is it not up to the referee to decide if a game goes ahead? The Home manager should have been liaising with the away manager, the league concerned and the referee on what was going on. Obviously the ref wasn't kept in the loop and that is not right.
 
Local Midlands Womens National League 2 PM kickoff on a 3G pitch called off this morning. Away team one hour travel.

Forecast was 7 C at kickoff. Predictably there is now little evidence it snowed.
 
Kent Ref said:
I was asked by a ref to look at the pitch near me (800 metres away) this morning. He lives 7 miles away. At 9am the pitch was fit for play no issues at all so i called him and told him so. The game was u16s and a 10.30am kick off.

He called me this morning and when he turned up at 10am nobody from either team were there. He got a text at 10.20 from the home manager saying "it's too cold to play football today so i have called it off."

He was of the opinion nothing was wrong with the pitch, the same as me.

It was a council pitch, if that makes any difference, and the staff was there. The second pitch next door had a game at 10am and they played it.

Does the ref have any grounds for complaint? He's not been paid anything.
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If this is the text received the referee should pass this onto the body (the league) overseeing the game and to their fixtures Secretary. There will be a procedure as to how matches are called off, and its too cold will not be one of them, unless there was some remarkable extreme in the locality of the game - Leagues do have a procedures in place for extreme weather conditions.

Leagues also do have policies in place for teams trying it on with regards to cancelling fixtures, refs can and should inform leagues when fixtures are cancelled by clubs without a appropriate reason. Sanctions and financial penalties are imposed upon clubs that do not meet the standards set by the league to fulfil their fixtures.
 
bester said:
Local Midlands Womens National League 2 PM kickoff on a 3G pitch called off this morning. Away team one hour travel.

Forecast was 7 C at kickoff. Predictably there is now little evidence it snowed.
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All weather pitches aren't as all weather as they used to be. With the old carpets they used to be able to brush off the snow, but with the new style 3G pitches that damages them, so if there is any snow it will be off.
 
Homer Ref said:
Am I missing something? Is it not up to the referee to decide if a game goes ahead? The Home manager should have been liaising with the away manager, the league concerned and the referee on what was going on. Obviously the ref wasn't kept in the loop and that is not right.
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Down to competition rules, not all will be the same. It can also sometimes come down to more than the pitch, for example when there is a severe weather warning leagues often allow clubs to self-postpone games without needing a referee or the ground authority saying it wasn't playable.
 
RustyRef said:
All weather pitches aren't as all weather as they used to be. With the old carpets they used to be able to brush off the snow, but with the new style 3G pitches that damages them, so if there is any snow it will be off.
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The snow melted by Noon.
 
bester said:
The snow melted by Noon.
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So then comes down to who called it off. If the ground authority there's nothing anyone can do about it, if the club then the league should be asking them for evidence of the ground being unplayable.

Teams undoubtedly try it on. For our league if it is a weekend where most games are off we generally take the word of the clubs, but if anything looks suspicious, such as most games being on, we will tell the home club they must get an email from the ground authority stating they ruled the pitch unplayable, and if they can't or won't we charge them with failing to fulfil the fixture.
 
"local referee".

No doubt with an early morning inspection the pitch would have been snow covered at the time they just didn't consider the forecast.

At Step 3 of the pyramid you'd expect better.
 
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