The Ref Stop

HANDBALL..!!! HANDBALL !!!

W

wa209

New Member
Evening all and Merry Xmas
Had a rareish occurance in my last game and thought see what fellow refs feel..
Adult Blue v Red.... Blue on attack, left hand side of PA
Blue winger attempts to cross.. Red defender tries to close down in doing so spreads arm out, ball strikes arm, just outside PA
From ball striking arm, ball deflects and strikes another Blue defender, again on arm. 2nd defender arm away from body, but no time to react or do anything different.
I delayed a fraction of second to see if first deflection from defender 1 was going to fall kindly for Red.... It didt so I have blown for first offence just outside PA.

Protests from Red that ball struck arm of 2nd Blue defender inside PA, therefore penalty.

I said no as first offence was penalised. Second Blue defender, although 50/50 unnatural position, was not in position to adjust etc.. and first deflection had rendered second impact unavoidable.

Just seeing thoughts on two possible handball offences and from deflection there is any 'leniancy' toward second defender.

I sold my desicion on basis on sticking to
my guns in first offence being penalised, rendering second possible offence 'mute'.

Welcome thoughts etc as happened in blink of a Eye
Cheers
 
The Ref Stop
if you think the second handling was an offence, then yes, play advantage and give the penalty. However it seems you feel that this was not an offence just an inadvertent ball to hand with no time to react. In that case you have only one offence to deal with, and give a free kick outside PA with any sanction you see fit.
 
I'd say just very confidently say "It's a free kick here" and then walk away. If someone says "it should have been a penalty", just say "no, definitely not." Then tell them to get on with the game.
 
Two issues, right? What you call and then how you manage your call.

In this specific situation, it seems to me that a quick and decisive call was needed, so making a call and then emphatically managing your call was most important. Two choices and either choice sanctions the attackers (immediate action trumps absolute precision). I agree with Dan56 and Farncombe Pete: whatever you decide, sell quickly with absolute conviction and move on. The call you choose to make is the "correct" one at that moment in the match.

As to the letter-of-the-LOTG call, whether or not player two had no chance to react, was his arm in an "unnatural position"? Sounds like it.

If so, then per Law 12:

. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised." Whether or not player two had time to react is irrelevant.
 
wa209 said:
Evening all and Merry Xmas
Had a rareish occurance in my last game and thought see what fellow refs feel..
Adult Blue v Red.... Blue on attack, left hand side of PA
Blue winger attempts to cross.. Red defender tries to close down in doing so spreads arm out, ball strikes arm, just outside PA
From ball striking arm, ball deflects and strikes another Blue defender, again on arm. 2nd defender arm away from body, but no time to react or do anything different.
I delayed a fraction of second to see if first deflection from defender 1 was going to fall kindly for Red.... It didt so I have blown for first offence just outside PA.

Protests from Red that ball struck arm of 2nd Blue defender inside PA, therefore penalty.

I said no as first offence was penalised. Second Blue defender, although 50/50 unnatural position, was not in position to adjust etc.. and first deflection had rendered second impact unavoidable.

Just seeing thoughts on two possible handball offences and from deflection there is any 'leniancy' toward second defender.

I sold my desicion on basis on sticking to
my guns in first offence being penalised, rendering second possible offence 'mute'.

Welcome thoughts etc as happened in blink of a Eye
Cheers
Click to expand...
I think your decision was right. Either way, red player was the first one to get the ball on arm AND his arms were wide and gaining a advantage over blue. Also, blue was in a natural position from your description, so it didn't give him a unfair advantage. Even if blue was in a unnatural position, red commited first offence, and blue didn't get any advantage after that because of it going handball, so red would be penalized.
 
Tingting said:
I think your decision was right. Either way, red player was the first one to get the ball on arm AND his arms were wide and gaining a advantage over blue. Also, blue was in a natural position from your description, so it didn't give him a unfair advantage. Even if blue was in a unnatural position, red commited first offence, and blue didn't get any advantage after that because of it going handball, so red would be penalized.
Click to expand...
Worth remembering that the ONLY advantage you are not allowed to gain from the ball (accidentally) striking the hand / arm is immediately scoring a goal. Gaining any other kind of advantage is / should be irrelevant to our decision making as to whether a handball offence has ben committed ..

Also 'arms wide' is not necessarily an issue either. It is only if the arms are unnaturally wide for the body movement being undertaken.
 
Russell Jones said:
Worth remembering that the ONLY advantage you are not allowed to gain from the ball (accidentally) striking the hand / arm is immediately scoring a goal. Gaining any other kind of advantage is / should be irrelevant to our decision making as to whether a handball offence has ben committed ..

Also 'arms wide' is not necessarily an issue either. It is only if the arms are unnaturally wide for the body movement being undertaken.
Click to expand...
Can't you get off RefChat and get on the phone to UEFA cos they must have a different rules pamphlet
 
Russell Jones said:
Worth remembering that the ONLY advantage you are not allowed to gain from the ball (accidentally) striking the hand / arm is immediately scoring a goal. Gaining any other kind of advantage is / should be irrelevant to our decision making as to whether a handball offence has ben committed ..

Also 'arms wide' is not necessarily an issue either. It is only if the arms are unnaturally wide for the body movement being undertaken.
Click to expand...
I need to a "unnaturally". Got it :hmmm:
 
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