The Ref Stop

West Ham v Brighton

Said it ever since VAR came in, I do believe referees sub consciously go for the safe yellow in situations like this because it would deemed to be seen more of an error if a referee goes red first then downgrade to a yellow instead of the other way round.

The fact it feels a very long time since I saw a red card being downgraded to a yellow also tells me referees are reluctant to go red right away.

It's been a major weakness since VAR came in and there's been no signs of improvement since.
 
The Ref Stop
Paul_10 said:
Said it ever since VAR came in, I do believe referees sub consciously go for the safe yellow in situations like this because it would deemed to be seen more of an error if a referee goes red first then downgrade to a yellow instead of the other way round.

The fact it feels a very long time since I saw a red card being downgraded to a yellow also tells me referees are reluctant to go red right away.

It's been a major weakness since VAR came in and there's been no signs of improvement since.
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I agree, psychologically I think it's almost inevitable when you have a 'safety net' that you would go for the softer option and wait to be told to be more severe.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
It's about time we start having VAR only routes of refereeing.

We currently have middle route and assistant route only paths into the higher leagues, maybe it should have VAR only.

I only propose this because, clearly, we are needing more officials to be able to work in the PL than ever before. So standards have, to some degree, dropped. No longer are we getting the best 10 (20 if you're wanting 1 as 4th official, though with differing kick off times across potentially 4 days, you could 1 official do 1 middle and 1 4th official a week, thus technically only needing 10 main officials, and maybe a few back ups in case of injuries) referees doing the best 10 games the country are supposedly refereeing (that's no criticism as such but you really want your top 10 each week out there).

Currently there are 20 in select group 1 and 20 in select group 2.
40 referees (not including assts) to referee 10 PL games a week. Yes, I know some get championship games, but maybe we should go back to they stay in Championship until the time comes when they can step up permanently.

This way, referees can focus on the middle, and VAR specialists can focus on the VAR training aspect.
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How would that work in reality though? They can't learn their trade on VAR as it only exists in the top division, the referee / AR split happens at L3/4, but you are hardly going to put someone at that level on an EPL game as VAR. Realistically they'd have to work their way to being SG1 as a referee and then decide to become specialist VAR, and I can't see many agreeing to that.

Even if the split was at L1, you know what would happen if a VAR who hadn't refereed above League 2 dropped a clanger, it would all be around he didn't have the experience to understand that level of football and the press would have a field day.
 
RustyRef said:
How would that work in reality though? They can't learn their trade on VAR as it only exists in the top division, the referee / AR split happens at L3/4, but you are hardly going to put someone at that level on an EPL game as VAR. Realistically they'd have to work their way to being SG1 as a referee and then decide to become specialist VAR, and I can't see many agreeing to that.

Even if the split was at L1, you know what would happen if a VAR who hadn't refereed above League 2 dropped a clanger, it would all be around he didn't have the experience to understand that level of football and the press would have a field day.
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Although, they are looking at bringing in a version of VAR lower down the pyramid. Looks like it will be a challenge based system (😍) but maybe it will be altered in time to allow standard VAR. Which could maybe bring a pathway.
 
RustyRef said:
How would that work in reality though? They can't learn their trade on VAR as it only exists in the top division, the referee / AR split happens at L3/4, but you are hardly going to put someone at that level on an EPL game as VAR. Realistically they'd have to work their way to being SG1 as a referee and then decide to become specialist VAR, and I can't see many agreeing to that.

Even if the split was at L1, you know what would happen if a VAR who hadn't refereed above League 2 dropped a clanger, it would all be around he didn't have the experience to understand that level of football and the press would have a field day.
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We could have 'shadow' VAR teams operating simultaneously doing checks and deciding when they would intervene. All would work the same as the real VAR teams except they wouldn't communicate with the on-field officials. Though you could even have someone 'acting' over comms if you wanted to mock that up too. VAR is probably the only aspect of refereeing where you could assess candidates' aptitude in top-flight matches live without any risk.
 
Runner Ref said:
Although, they are looking at bringing in a version of VAR lower down the pyramid. Looks like it will be a challenge based system (😍) but maybe it will be altered in time to allow standard VAR. Which could maybe bring a pathway.
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Still only down to Championship though, they won't even agree to the costs for GLT at League 1 and below, so no chance for VAR.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
We could have 'shadow' VAR teams operating simultaneously doing checks and deciding when they would intervene. All would work the same as the real VAR teams except they wouldn't communicate with the on-field officials. Though you could even have someone 'acting' over comms if you wanted to mock that up too. VAR is probably the only aspect of refereeing where you could assess candidates' aptitude in top-flight matches live without any risk.
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Agree it would test their competency, but still not the same pressure cooker environment if they know making the wrong recommendation won't cause an issue.
 
Runner Ref said:
I’m sure the ‘VAR lite’ they’re looking at goes down to L2
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On the interview I heard about it they definitely said just the Championship and WSL, but with a view to extending further if successful. Whilst not as expensive as full fat VAR, it still carries significant costs and the lower league clubs probably can't afford it.
 
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