The Ref Stop

Junior/Youth What to submit extraordinary match report for/punch at U12

JamesL said:
Nothing. But that's easily dealt with, name or 2nd caution.

Report what they give you.

Say ok, no problem. Thanks for the game. And to ring the league when you get home who will ensure you get paid. Usually they will pay you and make the club pay it back with a fine on top. Never once been refused payment because I gave a card.

Once you get used to it, it gets easier. Have to say if your in this for progression you will get nowhere without your cards. Eventually you will be forced to use them by the players/teams that you are refereeing.
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Thanks so much James, really helpful. I now feel a lot more secure about giving cards, I think they need to talk about these obscure topics more on the referee courses because I felt like I was just left in the dark about where to begin! I’ll let you all know of my next major incident and check to see if I have done the appropriate thing next time! Thanks everyone 🤩
 
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The Ref Stop
MarcusSurreyRef said:
Thanks so much James, really helpful. I now feel a lot more secure about giving cards, I think they need to talk about these obscure topics more on the referee courses because I felt like I was just lost in the dark about where to begin! I’ll let you all know of my next major incident and check to see if I have done the appropriate thing next time! Thanks everyone 🤩
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Mind you, I have just had an email from the man who appointed my games saying he thinks I did the right thing and would have done the same, and the manager said it was more of a push than a punch. I was directly in front of it with perfect view and can say it was more of a punch, may not have been powerful but still aggressive and does fall under violent conduct. Noted for next time, doesn’t matter about age: dissent should always be sinbin/yellow depending on competition and VC should be red.✅
 
MarcusSurreyRef said:
I think they need to talk about these obscure topics more on the referee courses because I felt like I was just left in the dark about where to begin!
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I believe the entire forum resonates with this sentiment.

Unfortunately, the course—and especially its duration—simply doesn’t accommodate for every possible scenario. I recently pointed out that sin bins, which are the FA's flagship tool for addressing referee abuse, aren’t included in the training. Similarly, it's concerning that we dedicate only 15 minutes to running the line, especially since many referees will first use this training in high-pressure situations like cup semi-finals or finals.

There’s a significant element of "fake it until you make it" in refereeing, and I think youth football offers a valuable environment to develop as a referee. Most coaches at this level are understanding, unlike Sunday league.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
I believe the entire forum resonates with this sentiment.

Unfortunately, the course—and especially its duration—simply doesn’t accommodate for every possible scenario. I recently pointed out that sin bins, which are the FA's flagship tool for addressing referee abuse, aren’t included in the training. Similarly, it's concerning that we dedicate only 15 minutes to running the line, especially since many referees will first use this training in high-pressure situations like cup semi-finals or finals.

There’s a significant element of "fake it until you make it" in refereeing, and I think youth football offers a valuable environment to develop as a referee. Most coaches at this level are understanding, unlike Sunday league.
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This is true. But ultimately you're never going to cover even close to all the different scenarios. I never had a mentor or a coach. On my own from minute one but I was 33 and had been around football all my life, so I imagine for a 16 year old kid it must be very difficult for example.

But just as counties should do more, there is also an element of personal responsibility. I'd recommend all new refs get to their local football ground and watch a few games and pay close attention to the officials. We spent next to no time on AR duties during my course, but no way was I going to nit prepare myself for my first appointment after my qualifying games which turned out to be a step 7 line an hour away. I went and watched 2 midweek games and watched the AR's. If I hadn't have done that I think I'd have looked and performed terribly. We have to support ourselves as well as look for support from the refereeing community.
 
Totally agree, that’s why these forums and alike are so useful for new and more experienced refs as they teach you so much about what you just weren’t made aware of in courses or CPD events. But to be far to CFA’s in 10 hours they can’t teach you everything
The Ginger Ref said:
I recently pointed out that sin bins, which are the FA's flagship tool for addressing referee abuse, aren’t included in the training.
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When did you take your course. They were mentioned pretty significantly in mine.
The Ginger Ref said:
concerning that we dedicate only 15 minutes to running the line
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i had to follow YouTube tutorials and the posts under this type of forum to make sure I was ready to run the line! Usually CPD events I’ve been on cover assistant reffing in more detail.
 
Ben448844 said:
This is true. But ultimately you're never going to cover even close to all the different scenarios. I never had a mentor or a coach. On my own from minute one but I was 33 and had been around football all my life, so I imagine for a 16 year old kid it must be very difficult for example.

But just as counties should do more, there is also an element of personal responsibility.
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While I completely agree that personal responsibility plays a crucial role in learning and development, can you name another profession where someone receives just nine hours of training and is then expected to navigate their role independently?

Even if we draw comparisons within our own profession, I completed an FA Level 2 course, which involved eight to ten weekends of training.

As match day coaches and observers are incredibly rare at the grassroots level of refereeing, it’s often challenging to receive consistent feedback that supports ongoing development.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
While I completely agree that personal responsibility plays a crucial role in learning and development, can you name another profession where someone receives just nine hours of training and is then expected to navigate their role independently?

Even if we draw comparisons within our own profession, I completed an FA Level 2 course, which involved eight to ten weekends of training.

As match day coaches and observers are incredibly rare at the grassroots level of refereeing, it’s often challenging to receive consistent feedback that supports ongoing development.
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Part of the problem is that if the courses took too long to complete, many people would lose interest and stop going.

A lot, maybe even most, who take the referees course do it just to do a bit of basic refereeing. They’re maybe not as interested or have the drive as others to progress. So a fairly quick and basic course probably suits them. If anything, the course is more of a taster as to what is in store.

When I did the course, it was x6 2 hour sessions spread out over 6 weeks. From start to finish, I’d say we easily lost 50% of the attendees. And even after what was a fairly in depth course, I left with absolutely no idea on where to buy kit or how to even get fixtures.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
I believe the entire forum resonates with this sentiment.

Unfortunately, the course—and especially its duration—simply doesn’t accommodate for every possible scenario. I recently pointed out that sin bins, which are the FA's flagship tool for addressing referee abuse, aren’t included in the training. Similarly, it's concerning that we dedicate only 15 minutes to running the line, especially since many referees will first use this training in high-pressure situations like cup semi-finals or finals.

There’s a significant element of "fake it until you make it" in refereeing, and I think youth football offers a valuable environment to develop as a referee. Most coaches at this level are understanding, unlike Sunday league.
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Some CFAs are now running follow up sessions as part of the basic training, but they delay this for a few months so new referees can come back with real life experiences to talk about. Best will in the world there is no way you could possibly cover everything that could possibly happen on a new referees course.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
While I completely agree that personal responsibility plays a crucial role in learning and development, can you name another profession where someone receives just nine hours of training and is then expected to navigate their role independently?

Even if we draw comparisons within our own profession, I completed an FA Level 2 course, which involved eight to ten weekends of training.

As match day coaches and observers are incredibly rare at the grassroots level of refereeing, it’s often challenging to receive consistent feedback that supports ongoing development.
Click to expand...
The Counties can do more of course and should do more imo. But refereeing is a hobby following the completion of the course. I often talk about my experience on the course, where I was one of almost 50 and learnt practically nothing, it was a shambles. But that leaves me and everyone else who attended with a choice. Go and learn off my own back or just forget it and put it down as a waste of time.
 
JamesL said:
Examples of extraordinary reports, but not limited to:
Surrounding match official (you have to take on field action).
Mass confrontation
Discriminatory / Aggravated offences.
Non playing participant and send offs. (in my experience the absence of one just results in an email requesting the information you would have put in one).
Anything unusual that you aren't sure is an offence or not.
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On top of these, other reasons for an extraordinary report can be:
- if a player commits a further offence after already having been sent off
- if a match is abandoned due to misconduct
- in very rare circumstances, if the offence for which a player is sent off is so serious that you believe the standard punishment would clearly be insufficient (for example, serious foul play or violent conduct which leaves the victim injured)
 
I would do what you did with the coach and maybe speak to the player with the coach present so he knows he is in the wrong. At that age it is about setting an example so depending on the severity i would either yc or rc because when the other players see that he didn't get anything for his action then they are going to think thats ok to do. I had a u12 game where a player continued shouting dissent so i had to card him because if you let players do whatever they want then at some point you will lose control over the game so its also about keeping control over the game
 
The Ginger Ref said:
I believe the entire forum resonates with this sentiment.

Unfortunately, the course—and especially its duration—simply doesn’t accommodate for every possible scenario. I recently pointed out that sin bins, which are the FA's flagship tool for addressing referee abuse, aren’t included in the training. Similarly, it's concerning that we dedicate only 15 minutes to running the line, especially since many referees will first use this training in high-pressure situations like cup semi-finals or finals.

There’s a significant element of "fake it until you make it" in refereeing, and I think youth football offers a valuable environment to develop as a referee. Most coaches at this level are understanding, unlike Sunday league.
Click to expand...
Sin bins are included in the new course. I delivered very recently.
 
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