The Ref Stop

DOGSO from a free-kick

WalterPinkman

WalterPinkman

Active Member
Level 6 Referee
A scenario I can’t wrap my head around, and can only find partially in the LOTG.

If a player takes a free-kick (Direct or IDFK) and touches the ball again before it has touched another player, it is an offence, and an IDFK is awarded to the opponent (forgetting the handball offence caveat for the moment).

However, if, by playing the ball again before it has touched another player, and this ends up DOGSO, what is the sanction? I am under the understanding you would remain with the IDFK restart regardless of where on the FOP it was, however what is it in terms of disciplinary sanction for the player who played the ball again?
 
The Ref Stop
WalterPinkman said:
A scenario I can’t wrap my head around, and can only find partially in the LOTG.

If a player takes a free-kick (Direct or IDFK) and touches the ball again before it has touched another player, it is an offence, and an IDFK is awarded to the opponent (forgetting the handball offence caveat for the moment).

However, if, by playing the ball again before it has touched another player, and this ends up DOGSO, what is the sanction? I am under the understanding you would remain with the IDFK restart regardless of where on the FOP it was, however what is it in terms of disciplinary sanction for the player who played the ball again?
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I do t know why you think this is only partially covered in lotg. After the first kick, ball in play. The second touch is now an offence. DODSO explicitly indicates it applies to offence punishable by any free kick, direct or indirect. Al you have to do is determine if the second touch denied an opponent a OGDO. There should be no debate in restart and sanction as per @socal lurker
 
socal lurker said:
Second touch can ever only be an IFK. (Unless also a handling offense.)

It could be DOGSO in some weird scenarios, and if so would be a send off. (The “mercy” provisions cannot apply because a PK was not awarded.)
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I just find it crazy you can DOGSO and it will only result in an IDFK unless handball.
one said:
I do t know why you think this is only partially covered in lotg. After the first kick, ball in play. The second touch is now an offence. DODSO explicitly indicates it applies to offence punishable by any free kick, direct or indirect. Al you have to do is determine if the second touch denied an opponent a OGDO. There should be no debate in restart and sanction as per @socal lurker
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As above, I cannot find anything that says it applies to offences punishable by any free kick.
 
WalterPinkman said:
I just find it crazy you can DOGSO and it will only result in an IDFK unless handball
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I sent a player off for shouting “leave it!” at an opponent as was about to roll the ball into the goal from 2 yards out. The fact it was dogso but ‘only’ an IFK surprised everyone, and it took quite a while to calm the situation down before the kick could be taken.

As Socal Lurker says there’s the occasional weird scenario - I’ve had this once in nearly 30 years and over 2000 games.
 
markref said:
I sent a player off for shouting “leave it!” at an opponent as was about to roll the ball into the goal from 2 yards out. The fact it was dogso but ‘only’ an IFK surprised everyone, and it took quite a while to calm the situation down before the kick could be taken.

As Socal Lurker says there’s the occasional weird scenario - I’ve had this once in nearly 30 years and over 2000 games.
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Just out of interest, did the player who shouted actually distract the opponent?

One of the situations I hope I never find myself in, it's hard enough explaining relatively clear decisions to players who don't know the LOTG!
 
markref said:
I sent a player off for shouting “leave it!” at an opponent as was about to roll the ball into the goal from 2 yards out. The fact it was dogso but ‘only’ an IFK surprised everyone, and it took quite a while to calm the situation down before the kick could be taken.

As Socal Lurker says there’s the occasional weird scenario - I’ve had this once in nearly 30 years and over 2000 games.
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Interesting decision. As @wazztie16 says, what was the effect on the opponent? Why would someone 2 yards from, presumably an undefended, goal decide to change their course of action because an unrecognised voice gave them an instruction?

What age group was this? What level of experience did you have when you made this decision (express this either in terms of years refereeing or your level)?
 
markref said:
I sent a player off for shouting “leave it!” at an opponent as was about to roll the ball into the goal from 2 yards out. The fact it was dogso but ‘only’ an IFK surprised everyone, and it took quite a while to calm the situation down before the kick could be taken.

As Socal Lurker says there’s the occasional weird scenario - I’ve had this once in nearly 30 years and over 2000 games.
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Also out of interest, did the player just freeze?😳
 
This was an adult cup semi final, and the defending team were 1-0 up with about half an hour to go (from memory - it was about ten years ago)
The ball was played to the near post where the attacker was waiting to pass it into an unguarded goal, with the gk and a defender 3-4 yards away, standing on the goal line. As he moved his foot to the ball the shout from two yards behind put him off and he left it! I don’t think he knew who had shouted - it was unexpected and took him by surprise so he froze.
I was 5 yards away and the shout clearly distracted him. There was a mass con with the distracted player shouting about how he’d been put off while team mates held him back, and players squared up, which made the decision easier. As I recall the player was surprised to be sent off but didn’t really moan about it.
When I’d calmed it down, sent the player and put the ball on the 6 yard line it went quiet, and then the attacking team really started moaning about how “it’s got to be a penalty. He stopped a goal. It can’t be a free kick in the penalty box!” When I explained it was indirect so couldn’t be a penalty they were amazed. They didn’t score from the kick and the opponents held on to win so it worked out for them, which didn’t help the mood much. The final was to be played the following week, and at the time suspensions weren’t always the following week, so the player would have been able to play in it. His team told me that if it came through for the final they’d appeal so that he wouldn’t be suspended - I think appeals had pretty much been stopped by that point, but teams weren’t always aware of this, and it had been common practice for routine appeals if they had an important game coming up.
At the time I’d been refereeing 15 - 20 years (ex L3) and had come out of the system a couple of years before.
 
markref said:
This was an adult cup semi final, and the defending team were 1-0 up with about half an hour to go (from memory - it was about ten years ago)
The ball was played to the near post where the attacker was waiting to pass it into an unguarded goal, with the gk and a defender 3-4 yards away, standing on the goal line. As he moved his foot to the ball the shout from two yards behind put him off and he left it! I don’t think he knew who had shouted - it was unexpected and took him by surprise so he froze.
I was 5 yards away and the shout clearly distracted him. There was a mass con with the distracted player shouting about how he’d been put off while team mates held him back, and players squared up, which made the decision easier. As I recall the player was surprised to be sent off but didn’t really moan about it.
When I’d calmed it down, sent the player and put the ball on the 6 yard line it went quiet, and then the attacking team really started moaning about how “it’s got to be a penalty. He stopped a goal. It can’t be a free kick in the penalty box!” When I explained it was indirect so couldn’t be a penalty they were amazed. They didn’t score from the kick and the opponents held on to win so it worked out for them, which didn’t help the mood much. The final was to be played the following week, and at the time suspensions weren’t always the following week, so the player would have been able to play in it. His team told me that if it came through for the final they’d appeal so that he wouldn’t be suspended - I think appeals had pretty much been stopped by that point, but teams weren’t always aware of this, and it had been common practice for routine appeals if they had an important game coming up.
At the time I’d been refereeing 15 - 20 years (ex L3) and had come out of the system a couple of years before.
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Thank you and what a great (or not so great) situation to be in. Amazing that a player so close to scoring would be distracted :)
 
Edit: Incorrect advice to follow, but not shying away from my idiocy, so I'll leave the post alone, but please see James's follow up post.

Relatively important on this subject that if a GK takes a kick, and second touches it similarly, it could be DOGSO, red card and IDFK, however if the goalkeeper takes the kick and, upon realising that an attacker if chasing it down, picks it up, there would be no sanction for the goalkeeper, just the IDFK. The keeper can not be sanctioned for handling the ball inside his area.
 
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RefereeX said:
Relatively important on this subject that if a GK takes a kick, and second touches it similarly, it could be DOGSO, red card and IDFK, however if the goalkeeper takes the kick and, upon realising that an attacker if chasing it down, picks it up, there would be no sanction for the goalkeeper, just the IDFK. The keeper can not be sanctioned for handling the ball inside his area.
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He can if it is playing the ball a second time from the restart mate.

Law says:

The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.
 
JamesL said:
He can if it is playing the ball a second time from the restart mate.

Law says:

The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.
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D'oh, back to law school for me! Probably should double check these weird things before I post them.

I'll get my coat.

Edit to add: Just realised I was mixing this situation up in my head with a situation where a pass back from a team mate was handled denying an OGSO as above.
 
WalterPinkman said:
A scenario I can’t wrap my head around, and can only find partially in the LOTG.

If a player takes a free-kick (Direct or IDFK) and touches the ball again before it has touched another player, it is an offence, and an IDFK is awarded to the opponent (forgetting the handball offence caveat for the moment).

However, if, by playing the ball again before it has touched another player, and this ends up DOGSO, what is the sanction? I am under the understanding you would remain with the IDFK restart regardless of where on the FOP it was, however what is it in terms of disciplinary sanction for the player who played the ball again?
Click to expand...

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the following example of this, given that we've discussed it on here more than once.

 
RefereeX said:
Edit: Incorrect advice to follow, but not shying away from my idiocy, so I'll leave the post alone, but please see James's follow up post.

Relatively important on this subject that if a GK takes a kick, and second touches it similarly, it could be DOGSO, red card and IDFK, however if the goalkeeper takes the kick and, upon realising that an attacker if chasing it down, picks it up, there would be no sanction for the goalkeeper, just the IDFK. The keeper can not be sanctioned for handling the ball inside his area.
Click to expand...
In your defense, this used to be true for a long time. It only changed in the last few years.
 
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