A&H

Arsenal V Everton

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Paul_10

Well-Known Member
What are people's thoughts of Michael Oliver rejecting to overturn Arsenal's winning goal for handball.

If I'm an Everton fan, I be unhappy that the referee rejected the review because he does control it with his arm and there is a lean forward towards the ball aswell but I wonder if Michael Oliver rejected it because his arm was by his side or because the ball potentially hit above the T-shirt line.

I been waiting all season for a referee to reject an review so it could potentially be shown on referees mic'd up(I know Darren England has but that was around the time of his controversy as a VAR so wasn't shown). Hopefully if a show is lined up, this incident will be shown because I am intrigued how 2 referees seen that incident differently.
 
A&H International
socal lurker said:
that’s not the standard!! IFAB @#$&ed it up with a bad diagram the first year. It’s the bottom of the arm pit—that is higher than the tshirt line.
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Sorry, just going by what the co commentator said from the clip on 'X'.

Either way, unless I'm an Everton fan then it's good too see a referee sticking by with his original decision, whether it's right or not I'm not so sure.
 
I can't understand why it was sent down for a review, there's no possibly way that was intentional handling.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
Why not? The ball has come from a long way off and Jesus has ample opportunity to avoid contact with his arm.
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He doesn't have to avoid contact with his arm, that's fan and pundit talk. All we can look at as referees is did he intentionally handle the ball, and was his arm in the expected position for the footballing action being performed. His arm couldn't be any more tucked in, I think he has tried to chest it and it has hit his arm instead, but that surely makes it accidental.

I wouldn't have had any issue if this was penalised real time, but I just don't see how it was a clear and obvious error to not penalise, and that is presumably the view that Michael Oliver took.
 
RustyRef said:
They are the same thing. I don't think he intentionally handled the ball, and his arm was in the expected position for the football action being performed.
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Are they?. Not so sure. Do you not think he leans into the ball or do you think he’s trying to chest it. His arm being in expected position doesn’t negate the HB if we think he’s purposely leaned in to flick it on.
 
Therealcjhill said:
His arm being in expected position doesn’t negate the HB if we think he’s purposely leaned in to flick
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I think he's leaned into it to. It's not as if the ball has taken a deflection and flicked up onto his arm. He's seen it coming from a long way. He's got his arm tucked in, but he's then used it as an extension of his body to gain and advantage to control the ball.

Handball for me.
 
Therealcjhill said:
Are they?. Not so sure. Do you not think he leans into the ball or do you think he’s trying to chest it. His arm being in expected position doesn’t negate the HB if we think he’s purposely leaned in to flick it on.
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Turning that around, what in law supports that view? Not saying you are wrong, but what exact text in the laws supports that?
 
RustyRef said:
Turning that around, what in law supports that view? Not saying you are wrong, but what exact text in the laws supports that?
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Well I’d go with a simple deliberate HB. Ball definitely hit lower than arm pit and I think there’s an argument he moves arm towards ball. It was a tricky one and it looked easier to give than not. I was surprised when it wasn’t.
 
I think he turns his body to avoid being kicked.
The fact we are debating it says to me it isn’t clear and obvious and VAR shouldn’t intervene.
 
Therealcjhill said:
Well I’d go with a simple deliberate HB. Ball definitely hit lower than arm pit and I think there’s an argument he moves arm towards ball. It was a tricky one and it looked easier to give than not. I was surprised when it wasn’t.
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I just thought he was turning towards goal and it hit him, Michael Oliver presumably felt the same whereas Stuart Attwell thought it was intentional. That, and the fact that referees on a forum can't agree whether it was intentional handling or not, pretty much means it can't possibly have been a C&O error and VAR shouldn't have been recommending a review. Unless they spoke and Attwell asked Oliver if he had seen the ball hit Jesus's arm, he said no so a review was agreed to make sure he was happy with the contact. That's the only viable explanation I can think of.
 
RustyRef said:
He doesn't have to avoid contact with his arm, that's fan and pundit talk.
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Law does not suggest so 'deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball'
Since moving the hand/arm towards the ball is only an example (as the clearest scenario), we can infer that failing to move the hand/arm away when there is a clear opportunity to do so can also be considered a deliberate handling.
 
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