A&H

Game abandoned !!

K

Kevin0954

Mentor, Coach, Observer.
Probably not much conversation here, but the following situation was outlined to me by a friend (not a referee etc) who asked my opinion. He witnessed it on one of several pitches, whilst walking his dog in the park. He asked me for my thoughts on what he had seen.

Open age game as far as I can gather. Two players sent off with yellow cards (presumably sin bin) after what is described as forceful questioning of the award of a free kick against their team. A few minutes later, referee awards a penalty against same team whereupon he is surrounded by most of the remaining team members. Result of this is three more players from same team leaving the field having been shown yellow cards. Again presumably sin bin.
Keeping this as brief as I can, the players then expect to be witnessing the taking of a penalty kick. Referee picks up the ball, walks off the pitch, hands ball to home manager. Short conversation with manager then walks to his car and leaves. (Conversation not overheard by my 'informant').

At the moment I can only offer rule 3 (minimum players) as a reason for what sounds like abandonment. I haven't found this mentioned anywhere in sin bin information advice, infographics etc.. Assuming my assessment of the incidents/game as described is correct, I believe this referee should be commended. Particularly in view of problems referenced in this forum re dissent.

I am trying to find more details from local leagues / referees etc.. Any thoughts / comments appreciated.
 
The Referee Store
Sounds like he dealt with dissent completely appropriately, resulting in the correct abandonment of the match. Only issue I have is making the abandonment much clearer. Normally I would inform players and ensure parents/spectators were aware, and would quite often blow my whistle as if for the end of the match as well. Not sure if this is correct but in LOTG it does say that a whistle should be used for abandoning a match.
 
The original FA guidance stated: "What happens if a temporarily dismissed player results in the team having less than 7 players? Unless it is not the player’s 2nd temporary dismissal in the match, the match continues as the player is still under the jurisdiction of the referee. If it is the player’s 2nd temporary dismissal, the match will be abandoned at the point of going down to less than 7 players"
Someone on here will know whether that has been revised . . . as in 2019 The FA Q & A stated: "There’s no limit on the amount of players that can be in the sin bin at any one time. If a team is reduced to less than seven players due to sin bins, the game will be abandoned as covered under the current Law"
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
The original FA guidance stated: "What happens if a temporarily dismissed player results in the team having less than 7 players? Unless it is not the player’s 2nd temporary dismissal in the match, the match continues as the player is still under the jurisdiction of the referee. If it is the player’s 2nd temporary dismissal, the match will be abandoned at the point of going down to less than 7 players"
Someone on here will know whether that has been revised . . . as in 2019 The FA Q & A stated: "There’s no limit on the amount of players that can be in the sin bin at any one time. If a team is reduced to less than seven players due to sin bins, the game will be abandoned as covered under the current Law"
Click to expand...
My understanding is that less than 7 at any point = abandoned
 
I remember seeing things that said a match has to continue, but also seeing things saying that the match has to be abandoned. It has never been made that clear because the chances of having 5+ players from the same side in the sin bin at the same time (or at any point in a single match tbh) are so small it isn't really thought about. They desperately need to issue some proper guidance on that matter.
 
I have emailed The IFAB law enquiries team to query this as it is so obscure. Will post their answer on here when received.
 
Gabriel said:
Sounds like he dealt with dissent completely appropriately, resulting in the correct abandonment of the match. Only issue I have is making the abandonment much clearer. Normally I would inform players and ensure parents/spectators were aware, and would quite often blow my whistle as if for the end of the match as well. Not sure if this is correct but in LOTG it does say that a whistle should be used for abandoning a match.
Click to expand...
I quite agree.
But as I am relating this second hand, I cannot confirm or negate the procedural points which you correctly detail.
I don't know if a whistle was used, neither do I know what if any conversation / explanation was made / given. (If the referee had a safety concern I would not advocate hanging around to exchange niceties ! ).
As I said I do not know the full circumstances, just made this post to provoke discussion. (Success).
Being unable to find an answer or guidance, I'm in the abandonment camp as JamesL says.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
The original FA guidance stated: "What happens if a temporarily dismissed player results in the team having less than 7 players? Unless it is not the player’s 2nd temporary dismissal in the match, the match continues as the player is still under the jurisdiction of the referee. If it is the player’s 2nd temporary dismissal, the match will be abandoned at the point of going down to less than 7 players"
Someone on here will know whether that has been revised . . . as in 2019 The FA Q & A stated: "There’s no limit on the amount of players that can be in the sin bin at any one time. If a team is reduced to less than seven players due to sin bins, the game will be abandoned as covered under the current Law"
Click to expand...
Can't find anything one way or the other, but certainly a conflict there.
Let's see what response Gabriel receives from IFAB. (Holding my breath in anticipation). ;)
 
Kevin0954 said:
Can't find anything one way or the other, but certainly a conflict there.
Let's see what response Gabriel receives from IFAB. (Holding my breath in anticipation). ;)
Click to expand...
I would hazard a guess that the answer will be "it depends" in the typical style.

However, if Gabriel gets a proper response then I nominate him to replace James as our resident IFAB contact! ;)
 
If your informant was only presuming the yellow card sending off was a sin binning, maybe we need a different coloured card to use for sin bins. We could try blue cards. Maybe I should float my idea with IFAB. You heard it here first.
 
You will get a proper response. The very first part of law 3, is what I expect you will be directed to.

"A match is played by two teams, each with a maximum of eleven players; one must be the goalkeeper. A match may not start or continue if either team has fewer than seven players"

I ask the real questions. 🤙
 
Queried this with IFAB as soon as The FA issued the guidance.
The FA corrected it but the original advice is still floating about.

"
Many thanks for your e mail.



The FA has sent out (or is about to send out) a correction to their original guideline which will confirm that if a team is reduced to fewer than 7 players for ANY REASON (including a temporary dismissal) then the match is abandoned.

"
 
brimac said:
If your informant was only presuming the yellow card sending off was a sin binning, maybe we need a different coloured card to use for sin bins. We could try blue cards. Maybe I should float my idea with IFAB. You heard it here first.
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I was presuming that myself, not my informant (sounds like the IFAB Police).
I know of no other valid reason for 5 players to leave the field under yellow cards. Only other explanation I can think of is a mass exodus as in 'Teddy of pram tantrums'. Either way less than 7 = game over.
 
Kevin0954 said:
(If the referee had a safety concern I would not advocate hanging around to exchange niceties ! ).
Click to expand...
I am absolutely guilty of doing this - I tend not to hang around too much anyway just in case, but when it comes to personal safety, if I feel in anyway threatened or unsafe, the whistle goes and I'm in the car.
 
Pwizardo said:
I would hazard a guess that the answer will be "it depends" in the typical style.

However, if Gabriel gets a proper response then I nominate him to replace James as our resident IFAB contact! ;)
Click to expand...
I fully suspect, as James said, they will give me a response pointing me in the direction of Law 3. They do tend to be quite helpful in my experience.
 
This is the reply from The IFAB:

Good morning

Thank you for your e mail.
We regret that The IFAB does not comment on match incidents or referee decisions.
However, we can confirm that if a team has fewer than 7 players (for any reason) the match should not continue.

We hope this clarifies matters for you.
Best wishes
The IFAB

So the match was correctly abandoned.
 
Gabriel said:
This is the reply from The IFAB:

Good morning

Thank you for your e mail.
We regret that The IFAB does not comment on match incidents or referee decisions.
However, we can confirm that if a team has fewer than 7 players (for any reason) the match should not continue.

We hope this clarifies matters for you.
Best wishes
The IFAB

So the match was correctly abandoned.
Click to expand...
Still suffering from splinters in their derrieres I see ...

I would question the (for any reason) bit. Take a scenario where a team are down to 7 and a players gets an injury and needs treatment, he's clearly OK to continue but obviously has to leave the pitch. You'd be restarting the game with 6 players, and restarting is effectively continuing the game.
 
Hmm. I thought there was guidance that if it is the 7th player who is injured the game waits until he is ready and resumes with the 7 on the pitch.
 
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