A&H

IDFK? (Liv-Ars)

R

ReallyRef?

Member
Arsenal vs Liverpool

Just interested on opinions about an incident late in the game. Núñez throws his arm in disbelief at Mr. Taylor as he did not award a foul for him. As the ball was now headed towards Arsenal's penalty area, the referee gives the free kick to Arsenal around centre circle area.

My understanding is that being dissent by action, should have been a IDFK and (compulsory or not? please confirm) and the referee should have had his arm raised as for Offside. Looked for that and did not see raised arm.

Just wondering if that was given much closer to Liverpool box area and would the referee give the advice to free kick taker that is indirect? As if not putting his arm up, the kicker might attempt to have a shot on target.

Do correct me if I'm wrong, not an issue. Just wanted to be sure if an incident like that would happen in one of my matches.

On the other hand, Alison had a 'mare, coming out like that for the 2-1 goal (Van Dyke's mistake too) and getting nutmegged for the 3 goal...
 
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Assuming it was an IFK to go with the dissent caution and there wasn’t something else going on, 100% should have an arm raised to signal IFK.
 
He definitely stopped it for dissent. From memory Arsenal restarted immediately after the caution and played it sideways, so it wasn't that he gave a direct free kick rather he didn't get the chance to put his arm up. Would only be an issue if he hadn't raised his arm and Arsenal had played the ball long towards the penalty area.
 
RustyRef said:
He definitely stopped it for dissent. From memory Arsenal restarted immediately after the caution and played it sideways, so it wasn't that he gave a direct free kick rather he didn't get the chance to put his arm up. Would only be an issue if he hadn't raised his arm and Arsenal had played the ball long towards the penalty area.
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It very, very rarely actually matters if we put are arm up—but when it does……

But I don’t get your defense here—if a caution was given, the restart was on the whistle, so can’t have been taken before he had a chance to put his arm up. It’s a miss by the R to not signal an IFK when signaling the restart—a very small miss in this context, but it is a miss.
 
socal lurker said:
It very, very rarely actually matters if we put are arm up—but when it does……

But I don’t get your defense here—if a caution was given, the restart was on the whistle, so can’t have been taken before he had a chance to put his arm up. It’s a miss by the R to not signal an IFK when signaling the restart—a very small miss in this context, but it is a miss.
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Don't disagree, I'm not even sure if he didn't very briefly put his arm up and then drop it the very second the ball was played sideways.
 
AT stopped the game for dissent. Well done AT
He did also stop the game for the lesser spotted PIADM (high foot, no contact). Well done AT for indicating IDFK. I marked him down for 8.0 (AOL)
Outstanding... bravo 🥸
I marked Alison down for a 6.5 (Major Dev... Leave it to VVD!)
 
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RustyRef said:
Don't disagree, I'm not even sure if he didn't very briefly put his arm up and then drop it the very second the ball was played sideways.
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Which if he did is completely correct, of course. Mercifully IFAB added back dropping when obvious not going into goal to stop the silly keeping the arms up requirement that was in place for a number of years.
 
At what point do you drop the arm if the ball is played long? I drop it upon the next contact, but I’m unsure that is correct or not?
 
WillH said:
if its going in any direction towards the goal, keep it until the next contact, otherwise put your hand down when the ball has been kicked (and going in a direction nowhere near the goal)
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So if IDFK and ball not going towards oppo goal Ref can drop his arm? Is this in LoTG or any IFAB documents? Just curious in case I start doing this, develop a habit then get challenged on an assessment. I get arm ache sometimes 😂 .
 
Dicky Herts said:
So if IDFK and ball not going towards oppo goal Ref can drop his arm? Is this in LoTG or any IFAB documents? Just curious in case I start doing this, develop a habit then get challenged on an assessment. I get arm ache sometimes 😂 .
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It's in the LOTG. Changes 2 or 3 seasons back iirc.

Screenshot_20240205-085847.png
 
Big Cat said:
AT stopped the game for dissent. Well done AT
He did also stop the game for the lesser spotted PIADM (high foot, no contact). Well done AT for indicating IDFK. I marked him down for 8.0 (AOL)
Outstanding... bravo 🥸
I marked Alison down for a 6.5 (Major Dev... Leave it to VVD!)
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I'd be reassessing that 8.0 if I were you - the dissent was in response to a clear missed foul, which would most likely have been a second yellow to Gabriel as well if it had been given. Game was done at that point so I don't know if it would count as a MCS, but it's still a bad miss.
 
GraemeS said:
I'd be reassessing that 8.0 if I were you - the dissent was in response to a clear missed foul, which would most likely have been a second yellow to Gabriel as well if it had been given. Game was done at that point so I don't know if it would count as a MCS, but it's still a bad miss.
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Hmm if we’re talking Gabriel on Nunez in the centre circle, I don’t think it was close to YC.

There was Kirwor (sic) on Diaz that was a missed YC when he first came on.

Havertz on the AR was interesting. He knocked his flag out of his hand and shoved him IIRC - would like to see it again.

Konate’s yellows - were they reckless or SPA? I’m presuming the first was reckless as hands in the head area, Havertz sold it well. The second I presume was SPA but it was a long way back in own half, looked harsh. In the end Konate should have been much smarter with his use of hands.

The incident that was weirdest was the very lucky Liverpool goal. Was it actually deliberate handball by Gabriel - if it hadn’t gone in would it have been DOGSO-R as Jota was behind him?
 
santa sangria said:
Hmm if we’re talking Gabriel on Nunez in the centre circle, I don’t think it was close to YC.

There was Kirwor (sic) on Diaz that was a missed YC when he first came on.

Havertz on the AR was interesting. He knocked his flag out of his hand and shoved him IIRC - would like to see it again.

Konate’s yellows - were they reckless or SPA? I’m presuming the first was reckless as hands in the head area, Havertz sold it well. The second I presume was SPA but it was a long way back in own half, looked harsh. In the end Konate should have been much smarter with his use of hands.

The incident that was weirdest was the very lucky Liverpool goal. Was it actually deliberate handball by Gabriel - if it hadn’t gone in would it have been DOGSO-R as Jota was behind him?
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I've assumed the Konate second was SPA, which is exactly why I think Gabriel qualifies. If that's your SPA bar when Konate has stepped up to leave covering defenders, Gabriel was the last line of defence - long way to go and no guarantee of controlling the ball so no DOGSO, but definitely enough there for an SPA based on the standards set by the Konate card.

And since you mention Havertz, agree as well that yes, he definitely could have been sent for that incident alone, and also definitely should have been on a yellow (at least!) already for deliberately taking out VVD in the air. Commentators focused on trying to decide if VVD retaliated or not, but missed that it's a clearly dangerous and deliberate act - when you watch the replay, he's laser-focused on the jumping defenders legs, has no interest in where the ball is.

I generally think football lawmakers need to sort out what they think about that kind of challenge - it's a yellow card minimum in a rugby game, but in football, any possibility of additional sanction just seems to get ignored despite the clear risk. Kane's classic subtle backing in is one thing, but when someone is clearly intent on just introducing a risk of injury to an opponent, I'm amazed it hasn't become a bigger issue.
 
saturday just gone the ref at my efl team gave idfks for offisdes. As soon as the ball was kicked he put his arm down EVERY time.

Is this a new thing?
 
Kent Ref said:
saturday just gone the ref at my efl team gave idfks for offisdes. As soon as the ball was kicked he put his arm down EVERY time.

Is this a new thing?
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JamesL said:
It's in the LOTG. Changed 2 or 3 seasons back iirc.

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Yes, relatively new. He obviously felt that it was clear a goal wasn't going to be scored directly at the taking of each kick that he did this.
 
As James has alluded to, it used to be that your arm was supposed to stay up until the ball was touched by another player or left the field. But that was changed back to what it had been years before—the arm only needs to stay up until it is clear it isn’t going into the goal. That’s the only reason for the signal in the first place: a goal can’t score, so we want our arm still up if the ball goes directly into the attacking goal.
 
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