A&H

Penalty shootouts

In reality, I've almost never had the opportunity to toss a coin for ends - at grassroots level, there's almost always one end where the markings are more/less clear, or where one of the penalty marks is in a hole or clearly in the wrong place. Or where one end has a nice fence to stop any misses while the other has a long hill or dense woods for a ball to get lost in. It's only really once you get to stadiums that the two ends generally become consistent enough that a coin toss is needed.
 
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Kes said:
Any referee who doesn't at the very least permanently record ie. by writing down what's happening during a penalty shoot-out is asking for trouble.

Just my opinion though ...
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I think that is a given. My reference to in head was doing the math, not skipping writing things down.

there are lots of ways to right down. The most important aspect, of course, is ensuring we know the score, and the second ensuring no one takes a kick too soon. My method is to write the number and circle for a make and a light line through for a miss. And then I check the number against the numbers above as I write it down.

aside: there is a perpetual myth I hear about having to give Rs the first 5 kickers before the first kick. Is that a myth others hear?
 
It's old law. It used to be the case up until ~5 years ago, but has been removed from the laws now. I imagine you're just hearing that from people that haven't kept up with law changes.
 
socal lurker said:
I think that is a given. My reference to in head was doing the math, not skipping writing things down.

there are lots of ways to right down. The most important aspect, of course, is ensuring we know the score, and the second ensuring no one takes a kick too soon. My method is to write the number and circle for a make and a light line through for a miss. And then I check the number against the numbers above as I write it down.

aside: there is a perpetual myth I hear about having to give Rs the first 5 kickers before the first kick. Is that a myth others hear?
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Yeah, that's a fairly common myth. With myth being the keyword
 
GraemeS said:
It's old law. It used to be the case up until ~5 years ago, but has been removed from the laws now. I imagine you're just hearing that from people that haven't kept up with law changes.
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Are you sure? I've just checked laws from 07/08 season and its not specifically mentioned in there from what I can see. But I could well me missing a section

If that's the case, its never been in law as long as I have been around. I bet @Peter Grove will know :p

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GraemeS said:
It's old law. It used to be the case up until ~5 years ago, but has been removed from the laws now. I imagine you're just hearing that from people that haven't kept up with law changes.
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Not sure it has ever been a law, certainly can't remember it in all the time I've been refereeing and that is over 25 years now. But in all that time captains and managers have tried to give me their first five takers, think it is just one of those perpetual myths.
 
GraemeS said:
It's old law. It used to be the case up until ~5 years ago, but has been removed from the laws now. I imagine you're just hearing that from people that haven't kept up with law changes.
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I’d bet you can’t find it! As others have said, I’m pretty sure it has never been in the Laws.
 
Mandela effect then. It's not even that I "remember" it being in the laws at some nebulous point in the past - I'm sure I remember the discussion that occurred around the decision to take it out of the laws!
 
I've gone back to the 95/96 laws which is when I qualified, and there is nothing in there. There's a very helpful checklist for referees in the kick from the penalty mark section, and in there it states ...

13. It is the responsibility of each team to select the players who will take the kicks from the penalty mark. The referee's only duty is to ensure that they are taken correctly.

One other interesting thing that I couldn't remember ...

11 . If, at the taking of kicks from the penalty mark, the light fails badly and the kicks therefore cannot be completed, the result shall be decided by tossing a coin or drawing lots.

 
As alluded to by several other people already, there has never been a time when the Laws of the Game required the names of any of the penalty takers to be given to the referee.

I'm sorry I can't give direct evidence of this but it's difficult to prove the non-existence of something.

Suffice it to say that I've looked through the minutes of every IFAB meeting and/or the Laws of the Game, from 1970 (when kicks from the penalty mark were introduced) up till the present day and there's no trace of such a requirement.
 
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RefereeX said:
Interesting to spot that about deciding ends as previously I've done the end choice as a toss similar to the 'who goes first' where I ask someone to call and the winning captain decides which end they're taken from. Didn't realise this was wrong in law.
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Me too, I didn't realise that either, I thought 2 coin tosses, one so one of the teams can choose ends and two so the winner can choose to 1st or 2nd, and I've had three PK shootouts this season!! I also did not realise (until I attended my 6to5 meeting last week) that we do not need to have a list of the 5 pen takers before the start of the shoot-out, I thought was a thing for some reason. Every time I have asked teams for this there has never been a challenge either. I know now though :)
 
Dicky Herts said:
I thought was a thing for some reason. Every time I have asked teams for this there has never been a challenge either.
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I guess it's because when you see it on TV there is normally a coach wandering round with a notebook writing down names. I imagine that people assume they are writing a the order of kickers (correct) to provide to a match official (incorrect).
 
I had my first PK shootout in 5 years on Tuesday. I had read this thread earlier in the day, what are the chances!
 
Viridis1886 said:
I guess it's because when you see it on TV there is normally a coach wandering round with a notebook writing down names. I imagine that people assume they are writing a the order of kickers (correct) to provide to a match official (incorrect).
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I had an argument with a manager about it as he wanted to see who the opposition's first 5 takers were. When I told him I had no interest as long as they all took one before anyone took a second he went off on one, so I told him to email the law saying that after the game and I'd apologise. Never heard a peep 😂
 
I do believe there was a game in one of the European competitions where the referee asked for a list of first five penalty takers. When the coach said it was not compulsory to give one, the referee insisted on it. After the game protests were made and FIFA clarified that a list need not be given and IFAB made this clearer in the Laws.
 
The LOTG first included the penalty kicks in their 1971-72 version. No mentions there about the taking of names.
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Dan56 said:
I do believe there was a game in one of the European competitions where the referee asked for a list of first five penalty takers. When the coach said it was not compulsory to give one, the referee insisted on it. After the game protests were made and FIFA clarified that a list need not be given and IFAB made this clearer in the Laws.
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I don't recall that, but there was the (in)famous incident in the 2009 Community Shield match when Chris Foy incorrectly refused to let Chelsea change the order of the penalty takers that he had evidently written down.

See clip below, starting around 3m 56s. Deco comes forward to take the 4th penalty but because it doesn't match the order Foy had written down, he sends him back and makes Kalou take it.


If memory serves, a reminder was issued after this happened, that referees did not need to be informed of the names of the penalty takers, though whether it was from FIFA/IFAB or just the FA/PGMOL, I'm not sure.
 
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