A&H

"Worst mistakes" pre-VAR and post-VAR - is it worth it?

santa sangria

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
So, I chanced upon this "article" of bad and missed VAR decisions: https://www.90min.com/posts/worst-var-calls-in-premier-league-history-ranked

And I tried to find a similar list from earlier and I found this on the title race from 2018: https://www.90min.com/posts/6295767...h-have-affected-the-premier-league-title-race

There's lots of Liverpool here (the Virgil Pickford one admittedly still drives me nuts) and quite a bit of City, apples and oranges, but that's not the point.

Post VAR, we no longer see incorrect "toenail" offside calls and incorrect "weird" offsides. And they were significant and there were quite a few. And I note from elsewhere that VC has basically disappeared from the televised game. And, overall, there are now fewer "wrong" penalty decisions. That's all in the plus column.

I am still wondering is it really worth it? In a league with money to burn, like the premier league, it is affordable certainly.
Is it affordable further down the pyramid - and is it affordable in leagues around the world?
Is it worth it in a league where top flight matches have 2 cameras and they can't really afford the 8 (?) camera minimum implementation, let alone the 16 (+?) camera standard?
Top flight referees in small countries want VAR, so they have the potential to referee UEFA and FIFA matches at the highest levels, makes sense, but if there are only a thousand people watching, is it worth it, who is going to pay?
I don't go to a premier league match every month, more like once a year, and I still haven't got over Dan Burn's VARred off bicycle kick at the Amex and the soul crushing decision lag and celebration mute, so I don't know if season ticket holders have adjusted?
Looking at the mistakes that are still being made, is it worth it... it's hundreds of thousands a year in the UK... and it feels to me like it's just a different way to populate the back pages... is it worth it... is the weekly debate about "wrong" decisions really that different from 2018?
 
The Referee Store
santa sangria said:
So, I chanced upon this "article" of bad and missed VAR decisions: https://www.90min.com/posts/worst-var-calls-in-premier-league-history-ranked

And I tried to find a similar list from earlier and I found this on the title race from 2018: https://www.90min.com/posts/6295767...h-have-affected-the-premier-league-title-race

There's lots of Liverpool here (the Virgil Pickford one admittedly still drives me nuts) and quite a bit of City, apples and oranges, but that's not the point.

Post VAR, we no longer see incorrect "toenail" offside calls and incorrect "weird" offsides. And they were significant and there were quite a few. And I note from elsewhere that VC has basically disappeared from the televised game. And, overall, there are now fewer "wrong" penalty decisions. That's all in the plus column.

I am still wondering is it really worth it? In a league with money to burn, like the premier league, it is affordable certainly.
Is it affordable further down the pyramid - and is it affordable in leagues around the world?
Is it worth it in a league where top flight matches have 2 cameras and they can't really afford the 8 (?) camera minimum implementation, let alone the 16 (+?) camera standard?
Top flight referees in small countries want VAR, so they have the potential to referee UEFA and FIFA matches at the highest levels, makes sense, but if there are only a thousand people watching, is it worth it, who is going to pay?
I don't go to a premier league match every month, more like once a year, and I still haven't got over Dan Burn's VARred off bicycle kick at the Amex and the soul crushing decision lag and celebration mute, so I don't know if season ticket holders have adjusted?
Looking at the mistakes that are still being made, is it worth it... it's hundreds of thousands a year in the UK... and it feels to me like it's just a different way to populate the back pages... is it worth it... is the weekly debate about "wrong" decisions really that different from 2018?
Click to expand...
Young folk just accept VAR like they accept the terms & conditions on their iPhone

Aside from Referees who have a vested interest in prolonging their careers and the Clubs that dread THE DECISION that costs them, who else wants what the game has turned into?

Footy has been decimated by the weather in the UK recently. I'm tired of watching Soccer Saturday.... with the same thing on repeat.... 'GOAL at wherever'.... 20 seconds of everyone naively talking about, celebrating the goal..... before the inevitable, 'ah hold on VAR is checking something'
Why does everyone keep falling for it? Whenever Newcastle score, my reaction is rarely to celebrate; the forensic Ref immediately kicks in for me looking for why it may be disallowed

It's such a shame. I'm sure there's a place for some degree of Video Assistance, but the way it's panned out has been lamentable to say the least
The gain is more than offset by the pain overall and ultimately it's been damaging to the collective reputation of our Refereeing Community
 
Last edited:
The 90th min Arsenal goal today. Incredible and gripping match. Amazing moment. Yet zi just start to feel empty waiting for the “lines”… and then there aren’t even understandable lines!
 
The thing that gets missed is that VAR last season led to a net gain in goals in England. In that it corrected far more incorrectly disallowed goals than it disallowed awarded goals. Can't remember the exact figures but think it was something like 45 "positive" goals. I get that it takes some of the spontaneous celebrations away, but if it leads to the correct decision I can accept that as a fan. Everyone will get used to it over time, as let's face it, VAR isn't going anywhere, it is here to stay for ever.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Idk who counts as “young” here but me and my friends (about 30 people under 25) are definitely very sceptical of VAR and how it’s used.
Click to expand...
Fair point...
Think there's three groups. An equal split between those who are dead against VAR, those under some belief they could dramatically improve it and a very small remaining minority who are VAR enthusiasts

The only practicable way to make big quick wins, is to stop using it so often... which is ironic
 
Last edited:
Big Cat said:
Fair point...
Think there's three groups. An equal split between those who are dead against VAR, those under some belief they could dramatically improve it and a very small remaining minority who are VAR enthusiasts

The only practicable way to make big quick wins, is to stop using it so often... which is ironic
Click to expand...
Which is what Howard Webb is doing, try to correct clear and obvious errors rather than re-referee the game.

What I would say is my closest group of friends, all of whom are football fans and ex-players, are all on board with VAR. They are frustrated with the inconsistency, as I think we all are, but are all absolutely behind the concept. I'm not sure I buy the argument that football fans are against VAR.
 
As per Dale Johnson, VAR disallowed 42 goals last season. 1071 goals were recorded. Therefore, if you're choosing not to celebrate when the ball goes in, that's because you're worried about a 3.9% chance of the goal being disallowed.

That's not a VAR problem, that's a paranoid fan problem - get over it, celebrate goals when you see them and it will all make a lot more sense to you.

Of course there are problems with it - the decision not to just copy the (relatively) well-liked rugby system is daft, as is the insistence on keeping everyone sat in silence for the process. And I'm still personally of the opinion that a challenge system should be trialled.

But of course there's an element of monkey's paw to this too. There's a huge overlap between those pundits, managers and fans complaining about VAR now and those who spent years contributing the a culture of "blame the referee". So I do have very little sympathy when I see high-profile people complaining about VAR - this is what you asked for.
 
RustyRef said:
Which is what Howard Webb is doing, try to correct clear and obvious errors rather than re-referee the game.

What I would say is my closest group of friends, all of whom are football fans and ex-players, are all on board with VAR. They are frustrated with the inconsistency, as I think we all are, but are all absolutely behind the concept. I'm not sure I buy the argument that football fans are against VAR.
Click to expand...
We don't mix in the same circles!
 
Could maybe setting a time limit on a VAR intervention - say - they've 1 minute to reach a decision - or the call on the field stands?
 
I understand the instinct to suggest that, but I honestly don't think it will lead to any improvement. We're still at a point where VAR interventions are frequently deemed "incorrect" - adding time pressure to the decision making process won't make that better.
 
GraemeS said:
I understand the instinct to suggest that, but I honestly don't think it will lead to any improvement. We're still at a point where VAR interventions are frequently deemed "incorrect" - adding time pressure to the decision making process won't make that better.
Click to expand...
Been at that teething point for 6 years.... or is it longer? Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results
 
GraemeS said:
I understand the instinct to suggest that, but I honestly don't think it will lead to any improvement. We're still at a point where VAR interventions are frequently deemed "incorrect" - adding time pressure to the decision making process won't make that better.
Click to expand...
Yes. And it is also a logistical nightmare.
When does the clock officially start? Who is the arbiter of that? What if several things need to be checked? What takes priority? What if 1 60 second timer starts and new check needs to take place within the 60 seconds.

And it will lead to decisions being sent that shouldn't be as rushed and not properly considered and/or decisions not being sent down that should have been because time ran out.
 
GraemeS said:
I understand the instinct to suggest that, but I honestly don't think it will lead to any improvement. We're still at a point where VAR interventions are frequently deemed "incorrect" - adding time pressure to the decision making process won't make that better.
Click to expand...
Rushing any decision, whether in refereeing or any aspect of life, rarely ends well. It takes as long as it needs, the key for me is getting the number of interventions down and not over analysing every decision. And it does look like we are moving in that direction.
 
JamesL said:
Yes. And it is also a logistical nightmare.
When does the clock officially start? Who is the arbiter of that? What if several things need to be checked? What takes priority? What if 1 60 second timer starts and new check needs to take place within the 60 seconds.

And it will lead to decisions being sent that shouldn't be as rushed and not properly considered and/or decisions not being sent down that should have been because time ran out.
Click to expand...
I was referring to when the Referee reaches the screen pitchside - then the timer would start - and that would be triggered from SP.
 
BAFRA #77 said:
I was referring to when the Referee reaches the screen pitchside - then the timer would start - and that would be triggered from SP.
Click to expand...
I think it's quite rare a referee spends that long at a monitor anyway..the biggest delays come whilst play is held up and the referee has his hand to his ear.
 
VAR is a real life person, like all real life people he/she makes mistakes.

Not sure why it has taken so long for that penny to drop in the football world, but some STILL don't get it!
 
The problem some pundits, fans and refs have is they don't get the subjectiveness of the decision making process and all the factors the officials have to process instantly. IMO VAR was never required but now it's in, the only way for VAR to have no controversy is to take away the subjectivity from LOTG and decision making and ruin the sport forever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top